Cardinal discussion

Alcochaser wrote: Just like there is often enough "chatter" heard by the FBI to raise the terror alert level. There is enough "chatter" from the right people to raise the railfan alert level. That is all.

You mean like when they raise it, and then nothing happens? And it's all an exercise in "running around like a chicken without a head" practice?

Interesting analogy...

I agree, this is lots of agitation about a dog of a route that has a couple of better alternatives for end to end rail travel. My totally unrealistic and fantasyfoamer suggestion is to deploy the equipment on an Atlanta to Chicago train (yes, I already know about many of the reasons why this could never work -- I am just day dreaming).

I think Amtrak Virginia would take in a orphaned Cardinal day train stub as far as White Sulphur Springs, just over the WV border. Whether WV would pay to extend that train to Charleston, I would estimate as a coinflip; Huntington is unlikely on the merits but internal WV politics may intervene.

IN was eventually strong-armed into supporting the Hoosier State, but might be more willing to support a daily train to CIN (whether or not OH can be persuaded to assist) if the schedule was adjusted to fit the needs of IND and CIN, which the present Cardinal doesn't even pretend to. How late you can arrive CHI westbound/depart CHI eastbound, i.e. how many connections you're willing to break, is something of an open question. Thruway bus departures from IND already connect to the CONO, Eagle, Chief, and Zephyr on strictly superior schedules than are available from riding the Cardinal/Hoosier State, so there might not be much of a hit to ridership by emphasizing them as the connection to the west while the train is the connection to Chicago. You'd just have to extend those buses to/from CIN. (Eastern riders changing at CHI would presumably be consolidated to the Cap and LSL.) I'm not fully convinced that that is an optimal solution (there are many, including several members here, who will simply refuse to ride a bus, no matter how nice it is or how much time it saves), but I'm no longer quite as nervous about it as I was previously.

Or if Boston to Charleston is more than 750 miles, run it that way. The name "Cardinal" should go, though, IMO.

How can CSX get away with that downgrade to 25 fgt/30 pass?,in 1 shot?,Can see them dropping the MAS is stages as conditions
start to go south track wise. But just doing that speed drop due to lack of business is a "cop out" at best.
Or a way to force Amtrak to drop the route to get the "Gulf Coaster"(aka "Sunset East")back?

Backshophoss wrote:How can CSX get away with that downgrade to 25 fgt/30 pass?,in 1 shot?,Can see them dropping the MAS is stages as conditions
start to go south track wise. But just doing that speed drop due to lack of business is a "cop out" at best.
Or a way to force Amtrak to drop the route to get the "Gulf Coaster"(aka "Sunset East")back?

Because when you drop a piece of track from Class 3 and above to Class 2.....
The inspection requirements drop by leaps and bounds. You don't have to send someone out with the high rail to run the line all the time.
You also drop the standards for defects that need repaired immediately.

I hope that Amtrak and states can buy the line from CSX so it can be in high class and a daily route.

The next cut has come, and this one will have a minor effect.

http://www.dailyindependent.com/news/cs ... b6daa.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

CSX has shut down Russell on the C&O

Amtrak stops here to fuel.

Now I guess Amtrak can contract with a fuel truck company.

But this should make all those who want to stick their head in the sand sit up an take notice. The Cardinal is on seriously shaky ground. Russel is the terminal ALL traffic on the CSX Cincinatti sub funnels thru...... well funneled thru.

We will see in the next couple days if this means CSX had cut off thru freights on the Cincinatti sub.

Where do you see anything indicating that Amtrak will no longer be able to fuel there?

I don't see anything mentioning Amtrak one way or the other, and the below quote implies that they will still be servicing locomotives there, presumably including fueling:

Some yard and all locomotive shop operations will continue without disruption.

The mainline fuel pad is part of the terminal, not the shop.

Amtrak uses this mainline fuel pad on the Russell yard bypass

SRich wrote:I hope that Amtrak and states can buy the line from CSX so it can be in high class and a daily route.

Who said that it was for sale?

Okay, my source has passed on some info.

The fuel stop won't matter.

Current plan is for CSX to reroute all remaining thru manifest traffic off the Cincinatti Subdivsion by early summer.

The plan is to then ask Amtrak to cough up the maintence costs difference between the current level and Class 2 traffic for the whole sub.

Source isn't CSX but someone who works for DJJX. He posted it himself on train orders too.

This crap is about to get real, if you want to ride the Cardinal. Do it now.

A lot of this seems like "the sky is falling." Just like the Southwest Chief was "certain" to be rerouted through Amarillo. I assume Amtrak has a contract with CSX, which can't be annulled overnight. We're probably in for several years of negotiations here and a lot will depend on Kentucky and Ohio willing to step up and work with Amtrak on this. Neither state has a great reputation for supporting Amtrak, but neither did Kansas or Colorado. Sometimes a crisis brings surprising results.

CHTT1 wrote:A lot of this seems like "the sky is falling." Just like the Southwest Chief was "certain" to be rerouted through Amarillo. I assume Amtrak has a contract with CSX, which can't be annulled overnight. We're probably in for several years of negotiations here and a lot will depend on Kentucky and Ohio willing to step up and work with Amtrak on this. Neither state has a great reputation for supporting Amtrak, but neither did Kansas or Colorado. Sometimes a crisis brings surprising results.

Amtrak is welcome to roll along at 30mph or pay the costs over and above.

Speed guarantees are not usually in the acess contracts. Unless there is a separate one to pay maintence costs.

Lest you don't think it can happen. It's the very thing that toppled the mighty Broadway off the PRR onto the B&O across Ohio and Indiana.

I just dont see this route being salvaged without major commitments by the states involved. And getting WV, KY, OH, IN to collaborate with Amtrak is nothing short of Herculean. Iv'e come around to thinking that some LD's are not worth keeping. This is one. The argument that the population in these remote rural burgs are not served by other transit is irrelevant. We cannot afford to run trains to every rural community and if there is no demand for air service then we are left with Interstate system transport. The states would be wiser to support bus service from the rural towns to larger rail/air connected cities.