• Amtrak through LI - Central LIRR

  • Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.
Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

Moderator: Liquidcamphor

  by REM3Night
 
A hearing was held Tuesday, January 12 in Mineola by the FRA. The Northeast Corridor future was covered. Of special interest to us on LI is the proposed route from New Haven, across (under) the Long Island Sound, to Ronkonkoma, to the Nassau "Hub", to NYP. Maps of the route are on necfuture.com. Go to Tier 1 EIS, then to Appendix A, pages 30 - 33 and 28. I believe they are talking of a "High Speed" service.
Should be interesting to see how it progresses.
Ray
  by keyboardkat
 
REM3Night wrote:A hearing was held Tuesday, January 12 in Mineola by the FRA. The Northeast Corridor future was covered. Of special interest to us on LI is the proposed route from New Haven, across (under) the Long Island Sound, to Ronkonkoma, to the Nassau "Hub", to NYP. Maps of the route are on necfuture.com. Go to Tier 1 EIS, then to Appendix A, pages 30 - 33 and 28. I believe they are talking of a "High Speed" service.
Should be interesting to see how it progresses.
Ray
I wonder if we'll see that in our lifetime. And what about the bypassed stations in Connecticut?
  by SwingMan
 
I'd imagine that they'd keep most of the slower Northeast Regional trains to cover that route.
  by Tadman
 
While this is an interesting intellectual exercise, I find it hard to believe it will ever happen. The only countries building massive infrastructure are the explosive-growth developing nations. When we were in this category, we did the same thing. Now we can barely afford to maintain our current infrastructure. Funny thing is, China's goose is cooked for a few years and I bet they slow down quite a lot on similar projects.
  by Kelly&Kelly
 
Internal word is that both the FRA and the NTSB have been politicized under this administration to virtual paralysis. The have been reduced to cheer-leading and vote-getting.

Nonsense like this press release, along with the quashing of the Philadelphia wreck findings for "political correctness" is excellent confirmation.
Last edited by Kelly&Kelly on Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  by keyboardkat
 
Tadman wrote:While this is an interesting intellectual exercise, I find it hard to believe it will ever happen. The only countries building massive infrastructure are the explosive-growth developing nations. When we were in this category, we did the same thing. Now we can barely afford to maintain our current infrastructure. Funny thing is, China's goose is cooked for a few years and I bet they slow down quite a lot on similar projects.
They built a huge rail project into Tibet. The GE-built diesel locomotives have pressurized cabs and the nonpressurized rolling stock has supplemental oxygen because of the high elevation. A large part of the right of way is built on permafrost, which turns to mud in the summer, so the Chinese installed liquid nitrogen pumps and piping to keep the ground frozen under the tracks, with uncertain success. But this is what they're doing.
  by Tadman
 
Kinda wild, huh? I think projects like this are interesting. Given the explosive growth in China, they've had the money to do stuff like this. But recently, China's economy is cooling off and they're not spending money like they once did. Caterpillar is really slow right now because no Chinese mining companies are buy machinery, because there's much less demand for coal and iron ore over there than there was a year ago.

Long story short, no country can grow like that forever, ergo no country can build railroads like that forever.
  by nyandw
 
The sad part is the tax dollars spent on the salaries, meetings, proposals, web site documentation, etc. How many "foolish" dollars have been spent just to get this info onto the net. Shame. Folks: We're discussing the technology/construction... Really?

LIRR from Bay Ridge Tunnel to NJ, Auto bridge from CT to Oyster Bay, NY just as examples.

We have severe infrastructure problems with the existing roads/rails/bridges that the Fed/States have yet to address.
  by tj48
 
REM3Night wrote:A hearing was held Tuesday, January 12 in Mineola by the FRA. The Northeast Corridor future was covered. Of special interest to us on LI is the proposed route from New Haven, across (under) the Long Island Sound, to Ronkonkoma, to the Nassau "Hub", to NYP. Maps of the route are on necfuture.com. Go to Tier 1 EIS, then to Appendix A, pages 30 - 33 and 28. I believe they are talking of a "High Speed" service.
Should be interesting to see how it progresses.
Ray
Remember folks LI is the NIMBY and BANANA capital of the world........
  by REM3Night
 
Go to NEC Future Alternatives:
http://necfuture.com/alternatives/default.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
To see the alternatives:
Alternative 1 maintains the role of rail with sufficient service to keep pace with population and employment growth
Alternative 2 grows the role of rail with service to new markets and to accommodate a greater portion of the population
Alternative 3 transforms the role of rail by becoming a dominant mode choice for travel in the Northeast
The first alternative is to maintain the system, some of which is old and in need of long overdue maintenance. Some people at the hearing mentioned that age of some of the infrastructure was old (very old?) and that meant that it was out of date and needed to be replaced - I disagree with that premise.
I previously mentioned the LI portion because it is of interest to us on Long Island (It is part of Alternative 3). It is also interesting in that it reopens parts of the Central Railroad of LI.
Ray
  by Tadman
 
nyandw wrote: We have severe infrastructure problems with the existing roads/rails/bridges that the Fed/States have yet to address.
Exactly. We have no idea how to replace the current tunnels carrying critical traffic but we're going to build a tunnel from LI to Connecticut on a flyer?

And given the cost of this crazy project, couldn't we spend half as much and significantly upgrade the capacity of the current New Haven Shoreline including bridge replacements?

This is nuts.
  by YamaOfParadise
 
A lot's been talked about the plan elsewhere in the forums, albeit not nearly as much for the LI-specific contingencies. Service under a full-build scenario would basically have 3 levels of service; an equivalent of the NE Regional service today, the equivalent of Acela service today, and the super-express service a new spine is built to support. That's from Amtrak's Vision of the NEC (circa 2012), and the EIS the FRA released had more-or-less the same service plans, just with different words. So, basically the current NEC keeps all of its service (with bypassed sections becoming the secondary spine), and the new primary spine gets all 3 levels of service. From the get-go back to the Amtrak Gateway Project, it's never been to replace service; it's to add a significant amount of capacity.

At any rate, I can't say I particularly agree with what's being put forth in this EIS, as it does not seem to put cost effectiveness as a part of any alternatives. The Kenyon bypass of Old Saybrook-Westerly is absurdly expensive through some of the worst terrain on the line... that's why the line follows the shore. And the way it's designed, every "step up" of the alternatives includes the options in the previous alternative, which means you get that or you get basically nothing. It doesn't particularly include the fixing-up of the Shore Line bridges because that's separate and already in the pipes; that's gonna happen regardless, and this bypassed stretch is still going to be operated even if that bypass is constructed. The Hudson River tubes are in a similar boat, as you need those no matter what happens... and with all the roadblocks that has faced and will face, it's definitely a good thing if those don't get bootstrapped to anything else, particularly this.

I'd also debate about which is the more ludicrous proposition: taking the LI/Cross-Sound route, or blasting your way through every major mountain range/geological system east of Westchester County to Hartford. In both cases you have to deal with rich New Yorkers who aren't going to take to eminent domain very lightly. The Inland routing is tipped more in the scale of engineering difficulty/absurdity than the Cross-Sound route, which is tipped more towards land acquisition difficulty. And both of them still deal with their absurd routing choices east of Hartford to bypass the Shore Line, as neither of the two options in that case (routing to Worcester or routing to Providence) attempt to follow the physical topography at all, even when you have the old NH Midland Line or the owned land CT has in the canceled portions of what is now I-384.

I also really don't particularly accurate to just try and scapegoat this all on the President; the roots of this go far before he could realistically be exerting his executive power. It's much, much more complex than that, as it tends to be the case in political matters. These kinds of problems tend to originate from the ingrained culture of an agency, because you can't just indiscriminately fire people. The Executive, be it at the State level or the Federal level, only has control as far as the Agency Administrator; and the Admin does not have truly totalitarian control of the rest of the bureaucracy below them. That being said, it doesn't mean the Executive or Agency Admin are completely impotent of power in the agency... just that it's not a black-and-white scenario, and it's hard to tell what's driving these particular bureaucratic machinations when we're external from the system.
  by MACTRAXX
 
REM:

I wanted to attend that presentation myself - Did they show in detail where exactly the route on LI would be and
where the proposed tunnel under the LI Sound would be? If there is any map posted please direct me there...

I agree with TJ and second his thought about NIMBY and BANANA opposition on LI to this plan - I agree with Tad
in that this plan is so outlandish when major parts of the current infrastructure needs renovation or replacement.

MACTRAXX
  by Dump The Air
 
haha a route from new haven to KO, what knob wrote that in crayon on the map with a bunch of doodles of money bags around it? ESA is how many years over schedule? hahahahha