NHSL more than 2 cars

The Electroliners required precision spotting. Red Arrow put poles in the ground at each station that served as alignment guides for the operators to ensure the doors would be in exactly the right place. The original doors were too widely spaced so Red Arrow cut extra doors (IIRC rescued from scrap MP54s) into the center sections.

Red Arrow acquired the Electroliners for a proposed Exton extension that was to be built in conjunction with reconstructing Route 202. The proposal included upgrading existing P&W infrastructure to handle the trains' weight and power demands. The 202 project got all the dollars it wanted but (I'm shocked, just shocked) the Exton line died on the planning table.

Instead of stretching their legs at 90 or 100 mi/hr alongside 202 the Electroliners were left to beat the cr@p out of the P&W's 1912-vintage rails and ancient substations. They were limited to a couple of runs per day until SEPTA pulled their plugs (1976 rather than 1980).

At least SEPTA's then-management had the sense and good will to shop both to museums instead of dragging out oxy torches. To the best of my knowledge both sets have been restored and are in operating condition.

The Electroliner's looked real awkward on the NHSL; Too big. I never thought I'd say this but thank god SEPTA got those unique trains because they might not be around today if it wasn't for the once good people at SEPTA...

The N5 cars can run in trains of up to 6 cars, if memory serves.

They have been run in 3 and 4 car trains during snow storms.
The terminal tracks at 69th st only allow for a 2 car train, so any more than 2 becomes an operational pain in the a....

There were poles placed at the stations to give the motormen a mark to spot the Liners for the station stops.
There are similar poles placed today for spotting the N5 trains.
Some of the Liner poles still exist and in a couple of spots they were in the right spot for the N5's as well.

An interesting feature of the N5 car is that the door controls allow for single person operation of a multi car train.
The cars can be set up for local or trainline door control.

During snow storms,the N5's are frequently run in 2 car trains with one operator. In those cases, the lead car only is open for passengers.
2 car trains are run during snow/ice because a 2 car train deals with snow & ice on the 3rd rail better than single cars.

Kind of ironic since they were designed by a company from a land where snow is a regular condition......

On a side note, it was asked earlier about the Kawasaki cars being able to run with more than 2 cars.

The answer is "yes", but with a quirk. I used to have an operational manual for them. They can run in trains up to a limit of 6 cars, but ONLY as 2, 4, or 6-car trains. For whatever reason, the instructions state that if a train of odd-numbered cars (3-car or 5-car) is run, the 3rd or 5th car must be electrically isolated from the rest of the train.

I think I remember the Liberty Liners having beverage service in the back of the last car. Is this accurate ? Did the Pennsy or Reading commuter services ever offer snacks or beverages on-board their trains? Club car?

The DE (101/102) Kawasaki cars will only operate in a 2 car train. Any more than that will not operate. 3 cars, 4 cars, it's been tried, they will not MU.
That said, there have been instances with the DE cars where a 3 car and a 4 car train were on the line during storm and breakdown situations, not revenue service. There were a single car coupled to a 2 car train with a dead car, and 2 2car trains mechanically coupled.
In both instances, the operation was like double heading steam locomotives, it reqiuired co-ordination between the crews for movement.
The situation may be different with the SE (city) cars, but I doubt it.

On the liner, the cafe car was one of the center cars.
I'm not sure which way the Liners were facng when on the P&W, but on the set at Rockhill the cafe is on the West end of the train, second car.

Metro North has the bar cars. I wonder if they would do well on some of the longer lines on SEPTA? Maybe on the Flyer.

ewonder wrote:I think I remember the Liberty Liners having beverage service in the back of the last car. Is this accurate ?

Very definitely. I never, uh, sampled the wares because I was under 18 but I remember at one point Jim McGarrity himself was slinging drinks behind the bar.

My assumption is that liability issues would prevent SEPTA from running any bar cars today.

I don't know about you, but I'd sure enjoy being on a 55-minute train ride alongside passengers who downed two 12-ounce bottles and are wondering where the bathroom is.

Well of course you would add bathrooms. Oh, wait. This is SEPTA we're talking about.

I apologize for bumping an old discussion, but just to set the record in case anybody stumbles upon it (as I did)...

What I never understood is why the P&W bought the least-suited equipment for the railroad.

It is to my understanding Electroliner sets were selected by the P&W because of the tavern/lounge accommodation (specifically, the bar).
It is also to my understanding that, prior to this decision, they actually did consider acquiring 450-series cars from the CA&E.

DT662000 wrote:It is to my understanding Electroliner sets were selected by the P&W because of the tavern/lounge accommodation (specifically, the bar)

Those amenities almost certainly figured into the decision, but it was in conjunction with plans to build a branch to Exton. Upholstered seats, A/C (this was the 60s), and a bar car would have drawn a lot more riders than the Bullets, no matter how revolutionary the latters' design was.

And thanks for the info about the CA&E cars. I'd followed many of the twists and turns taken by both Red Arrow and later SEPTA over the decades* but wasn't up on the 450's. The P&W certainly would have looked different if they'd been acquired.

(*) ... including proposed variations on Silverliners, Kawasakis, and PATCO cars, among others.