Delaware State Rail Plan

SEPTA provides service to Delaware but the service is fully funded by......Delaware, to include capital investments, not just operating costs. To avoid further hijacking of the PA state plan thread.......

Delaware's rail plan: http://www.deldot.gov/information/pubs_ ... _final.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't see anything about the 17 or so stops in Pennsylvania or does having a ridiculously slow ride to philadelphia not affect delaware riders since they live in a different state?

Suburban Station wrote:I don't see anything about the 17 or so stops in Pennsylvania or does having a ridiculously slow ride to philadelphia not affect delaware riders since they live in a different state?

Why would PA stops be on the DE plan?

Interesting, when the topic is about PA's rail plan, you bring up DE. In the DE rail plan thread, you bring up PA.

Ironically, it's the same answer for both threads: Service in Delaware is paid for by the State of Delaware and the type of service Delaware gets depends on what Delaware pays. Obviously, if DE approaches SEPTA asking for an express between CC Philly and the DE state line, the price will be a lot higher then paying for for a local that extends its trip into DE. I would assume this would also apply to capital expenditures. It's tough getting the PA "bureaucrats" to pay for rail stuff in PA. I assume that narrow minded obstinate attitude would be in full force if paying for rail stuff in Delaware. Probably why Del paid for a few of the SV's, but that is a guess with no substance.

As for service options that Del could pay for, I assume that on one end of the spectrum is the premium no-stopping in PA option and the other side is the K-mart all "17 or so" stops in PA option - and with everything in between also being on the table. I assume the planners in DE asked SEPTA what the price would be for a number of different options, weighed all the options within the budget, dealt with Amtrak issues if any, and created the "compromise" service they currently have- basically trading for frequency at the expense of trip time which appears to be about 16 ridiculous minutes between the Premium and K-Mart services.

9212 northbound in the am and 9251 southbound in the pm date back to before Delaware participated in the Newark extension, so most likely they were grandfathered since they were already running express to Wilmington (making only Ridley Park, Chester, and Marcus Hook--and Claymont, in DE--en route). Two additional expresses in each direction have since been added; 9254 is the return move of 9251 and used to deadhead anyway, so the nonstop run from Marcus Hook to University City may be included as a freebie, since it was certainly nonstop when it was deadheading.

ExCon90 wrote:9212 northbound in the am and 9251 southbound in the pm date back to before Delaware participated in the Newark extension, so most likely they were grandfathered since they were already running express to Wilmington (making only Ridley Park, Chester, and Marcus Hook--and Claymont, in DE--en route). Two additional expresses in each direction have since been added; 9254 is the return move of 9251 and used to deadhead anyway, so the nonstop run from Marcus Hook to University City may be included as a freebie, since it was certainly nonstop when it was deadheading.

I would love to see the actual breakdown of the operating agreement. I would not be surprised if there are some grandfathers or a deadhead discount thrown in.

I know DE paid for a few SV's, but anyone know if they have any interest in the new loco / multi-level projects?

I wonder if a ridership study was done between express and all local service. Since most people have to drive to wilmington or claymont trip time is important. ..particularly off peak.

The locals that run to Delaware still seem to get pretty good ridership. There are a lot of riders going from Delco to Wilmington and back, and I don't see how you get enough riders from an off-peak express to balance losing those riders with a forced transfer. (Also, those riders are free money, since they let you sell the same seat twice.)

There's a lot of talk in the DE state rail plan about capital investments, and a few that describe how many trips per day are run, but not a single word about raising frequencies or how to accomplish that. Incredibly disappointing and shortsighted, though ultimately not surprising at all.

Ccom it is entirely possible the loss of delco ridership can be offset by an increase in wilmington philly ridership since they are much larger markets than delco. Of course this debate is exactly what ridership estimates are supposed to help answer. Of course this issue could also be addressed by more reasonably priced amtrak

Amtrak fares from Wilmington to Philadelphia are what they are so that Amtrak isn't hauling coaches from Washington to Boston to accommodate a "bulge" between Wilmington and New York. I think that at SEPTA fares there might be a demand for a regular-interval express service between Wilmington and Philadelphia, making a few intermediate stops (perhaps none, besides University City?), going to either Suburban Station or Temple U (for Roberts Yard). (Wotthehell, all they'd need is more equipment and crews--and more money from Delaware.)

ExCon90 wrote:Amtrak fares from Wilmington to Philadelphia are what they are so that Amtrak isn't hauling coaches from Washington to Boston to accommodate a "bulge" between Wilmington and New York. I think that at SEPTA fares there might be a demand for a regular-interval express service between Wilmington and Philadelphia, making a few intermediate stops (perhaps none, besides University City?), going to either Suburban Station or Temple U (for Roberts Yard). (Wotthehell, all they'd need is more equipment and crews--and more money from Delaware.)

Since it's a septa forum I won't get too far into it but that's not exactly true about amtrak. The bulge, so to speak, actually exists between philly and ny. Charging exorbitant fares while seats go empty does nothing more than guarantee seats go empty. That said even at higher prices than septas current fare there's demand for express (though closer to septa prices than amtrak which often run 2 bucks per minute)

What I was saying is that if Philadelphia-Wilmington fares are reduced the bulge will extend southward to Wilmington. I was also assuming that any express service provided by SEPTA would be at the same fare as for the locals; there are enough complications now with the weekday-vs.-weekend-evening fares without adding an express supplement.

ExCon90 wrote:... there are enough complications now with the weekday-vs.-weekend-evening fares without adding an express supplement.

Unfortunately complexity hasn't stopped SEPTA from applying supplements in other cases; witness the RRD cash surcharge-that-isn't-a-surcharge, the 50¢ "premium service" increment applied to NHSL fares, and bus routes (123, 150, parts of 124 & 125) where multi-zone fares are charged on one-zone trips.

Yes, but in those cases SEPTA was careful to exclude any alternative. The complication I had in mind is that a supplemental fare on expresses where lower-cost locals also operate would have passengers thinking "now let me see--will I be coming back when an express is running? should I buy an express supplement for the return trip or not? do they charge extra for a stepup from local to express if you don't buy the supplement ahead of time?" Decisions, decisions.

DART is paying SEPTA for late night trains to/from Wilmington
http://www.delawareonline.com/story/new ... /76459924/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The new weekday southbound train will arrive in Wilmington from Philadelphia at 12:26 a.m., she said, and the final northbound weekday train will leave Wilmington at 12:48 a.m. Both will be two-hours later than the current arrival and departure times for the final Wilmington trains.