Amtrak: PTC Mandate, Progress System Wide

buff strength is not only about crashes , but compatibility with heavier train cars,Budd already complied with 1000 000 buff strength in 1973, so why not let others step up to their standards.

DutchRailnut wrote:buff strength is not only about crashes , but compatibility with heavier train cars,Budd already complied with 1000 000 buff strength in 1973, so why not let others step up to their standards.

because it requires globally unique cars and adds considerable weight for little empirical benefit?

US is globally unique, with any railcar more than twice global weight, same with locomotives, name any other country other than Norway or Australia's ore carriers were axle loads of over 30 ton are norm.

The Journal appears largely "on the same page" as The Times. Take it from one who has read both papers for now fifty years, that is a rare happening:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-oncomin ... 1445806695" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fair Use:

Congress spends much of its time sorting through crises created by past legislation, and this week will be no exception. Barreling down the tracks is a legal deadline for railroads that threatens to slam the economy if legislators don’t revisit one of their unwise mandates.

A month after a deadly train accident in 2008, Congress forced passenger and many freight railroads to install technology called positive train control, or PTC, by Dec. 31 of this year. The unwieldy $13 billion or more apparatus would prevent fewer than 5% of accidents, according to estimates..

Unfortunately, "those 5%" have a way of being "the visible 5%", e.g. Chatsworth, Frankford Jct.

Extension for PTC:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/28/us/po ... .html?_r=0

Gilbert B Norman wrote:The Journal appears largely "on the same page" as The Times. Take it from one who has read both papers for now fifty years, that is a rare happening:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-oncomin ... 1445806695" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fair Use:

Congress spends much of its time sorting through crises created by past legislation, and this week will be no exception. Barreling down the tracks is a legal deadline for railroads that threatens to slam the economy if legislators don’t revisit one of their unwise mandates.

A month after a deadly train accident in 2008, Congress forced passenger and many freight railroads to install technology called positive train control, or PTC, by Dec. 31 of this year. The unwieldy $13 billion or more apparatus would prevent fewer than 5% of accidents, according to estimates..

Unfortunately, "those 5%" have a way of being "the visible 5%", e.g. Chatsworth, Frankford Jct.

Thank you, Mr. Norman, for mentioning the 5%. I have been saying this for a while. There have been just as many deaths from bears since 1975 as there has been from PTC-preventable accidents. The notion that PTC will do anything for us is just bloody foolish but that's never stopped Chuck "give me the mic and take my picture" Schumer and his pals. That said, we have a real problem with grade crossing incidents - LA Metrolink just spent millions on new idiot-proof cab cars to resist grade crossing incidents, didn't like them, and then, for only $19m of your tax dollar, leased a sack full of BNSF power to bracket trains rather than use cab cars. Where's positive grade crossing control? That would be far more useful.

Here is discussion addressing impact of the PTC mandate upon the railroad industry as a whole:

viewtopic.php?f=177&t=160539" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The news appears to have gotten overlooked in the flurry of activity (and food fights) on Capitol Hill, but the 3 year extension of the PTC deadline is now headed to Obama for his signature, The PTC extension (with a 2 year additional waiver option) was added to a 3 week highway funding extension by the House and Senate to get it taken care of while they continue to hash out a multi-year transportation reauthorization bill. Obama is expected to sign the extension, so the fear over a shutdown of passenger rail and a partial shutdown of freight rail can be put to rest. So Congress did not wait until the absolute last minute to extent the PTC deadline, they did it with a whole two months to spare!

The Hill: Senate approves three-week highway bill. Excerpt:

The short-term bill also extends a Dec. 31 deadline for railroads to install an automated train navigation system, known as positive train control, to the end of 2018. The extension had previously been attached to both the Senate and House's multiyear highway bills after railroads threatened to partially shut down many of the nation's railways.

Well...for most RR's. In the GAO report where the RR's self-reported their projected completion dates CSX, Norfolk Southern, and the MBTA all cited Dec. 2020. Since that gives them until the final day of the 2020 calendar year, it's a placeholder that says "we are going to miss the longest extension on the table."

I'm not sure why CSX and NS are in such woeful deadline shape when all their Class I counterparts are going to make it by order of years sooner, and when they have the most passenger-coexistence route mile overlap of any Class I's where the passenger agencies are paying. One would assume, however, that they're going to prioritize passenger lines first simply as a defense against being outnumbered by public authorities knives-out for their hides. So I doubt that'll cause any trouble.


The MBTA...yeah, we already knew long ago how screwed they are and what position they put themselves in. That's going to be a brutal trip to the woodshed when they get the tight leash yanked on them in their application hearings/(grillings) for further deadline extensions. They're going to have to rally around getting the Downeaster and Lake Shore Limited moved to the front of the line to at least keep Amtrak at bay.

I believe the railroad industry (the Association of American Railroads) has been saying all along that they wanted the final deadline pushed back to December 2020.

Railroads will have the option of filing an alternative schedule for implementation with the US DOT. An alternative schedule must outline how a railroad will implement PTC no later than December 31, 2020, and will be subject to the binding review and approval of the US Secretary of Transportation. Starting in March 2016, railroads must file detailed annual PTC progress reports to US DOT until PTC is fully installed on each railroad's network. The US Secretary of Transportation will assess civil penalties to railroads that do not comply with the law. Link to AAR

I think the difference is, the systems will have to be fully designed and should be implemented by 2018 but testing can continue over two more years. There will be a lot of testing done before the systems will become fully operational. In addition, railroads who still can not meet the 2018 deadline will have two more years in which to do so. But they have to have already filed a detailed report with US DOT outlining their schedule.

Below is a chart showing industry progress through this past August as well as a timeline for the rest of the work.

A three year extension is ridiculous. They're not going to be much further along by then, than they are now.

I would expect another ten to fifteen years before PTC is installed and workable for most roads...

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/12/21/ ... -corridor/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sorry - I see that this is already posted here.

What's that leave for unfinished NEC segments, besides the New Haven Line which is MNRR's bag?

I saw a news release yesterday saying that that was the last link--it's complete except for MN.

What's the status of ASCES install on the Philly 30th street to H-burg route?
While the ASCES install is the last step on the NHV-SPG route after track upgrades are done,
will Amtrak cut-in ASCES on the Empire connector(30th st branch) when MN's Hudson line
ASCES install is done?