The "Ocean" VIA Overnight Sleeper

marquisofmississauga wrote:Last week I received a letter from VIA's Director of Eastern Services in response to my enquiry. VIA is indeed going to "re-seat" the lounge cars for the "Ocean" and it is intended to run a Park car on the Renaissance trains. The Park car will coincide with the introduction of a new class of sleeping car service on 1st June.

So, they're going to stick a park car on the end of a Renaissance set? That's going to look rather weird. And are vestibule heights close enough that passengers can walk between the two types of cars?

hsr_fan wrote:So, they're going to stick a park car on the end of a Renaissance set? That's going to look rather weird. And are vestibule heights close enough that passengers can walk between the two types of cars?

Have you seen one of Amtrak's Florida trains: A mixture of Heritage, Amfleet and Viewliner.

Floor height is about the same. Don't know if VIA has decided yet on how access will be between sections.

NS VIA FAN wrote:Have you seen one of Amtrak's Florida trains: A mixture of Heritage, Amfleet and Viewliner.

Yeah, and that looks bad enough, even though all the cars are stainless steel. A Park car on the end of an otherwise uniform consist of green, lightweight European cars would look rather strange indeed. But providing service is more important than how the train looks, of course.

Well, they could do some minor but interesting re-painting to match if they wanted to. But I am certainly in favor of seeing a Park Car or some sort of dome return to the Ocean. Would appear Lounge space is needed.

Yesterday I spoke to Via headquarters about another subject (my private car move from Montreal to Senneterre and return on The Abitibi in late September) and then I asked if they had considered creating an adapter/transition car (with Renaissance coupler on one end and standard tightlock coupler on the other end) so that private cars could be operated on the rear of a Rennaisance trainset. The answer was that they have modified 3 Rennaisance cars with couplers for adapter/transition service in that manner, allowing them to operate a Park dome-observation car on the rear of each consist of The Ocean. He said they would enter service very soon.

A "Park Car" is now being used on the "Renaissance" Ocean.

Here is the consist of w/b OCEAN #15 on Friday June 3, 2005.

6420 F40
6415 F40
6413 F40
7009 Baggage
7228 Coach
7225 Coach
7232 Coach
7231 Coach
7311 Lounge/Service Car
7402 Diner
7314 Lounge/Service Car
7526 Sleeper
7521 Sleeper
7520 Sleeper
7501 Sleeper
7518 Sleeper
7503 Sleeper
7602 Transition Car
Waterton Park

Here is a photo of the Park Car behind the Transition car.

http://www.zippyimages.com/55209.html

Doesn't look too odd back there - the Park Car. I am glad to hear and see that it is back online for the Ocean! I definitely want to take this train again before the upgraded Easterly Class comes off for the season - I am shooting for a September excursion to Halifax, via the Ocean.

What's the interior of the transition car like? Couldn't the have at least kept the windows and possibly put in some lounge type chairs or something? Would offer additional lounge space. Seems like a waste of space if the idea is to just walk through an empty car!

I am doing the "easterly" in two weeks. Old cars one way new cars the return trip. I had seen some posts noting there was an observation dome on the back of the renaissance consists. Can anyone tell me if this is still the case.
thanks

I don't know for sure but I believe the Park car will only be a part of the Renaissance consists up until the end of October when the new improved "Easterly Class" takes a break for the winter months. The old sleeping car service is now known as "Comfort Sleeper Class" and does not include any meals. As it is now, the Park car is only available for use by passengers in "Easterly Class".

VIA Rail confirmed that effective Nov 1 the Park Car will be removed, to return with the Easterly Class around May 01, 2006. The enhanced Easterly Class has been very successful this year.

Harold Nicholson

Successful this year, but I wonder about next year. One of my friends did the trip in the new Easterly Class with his girlfriend. He throughly enjoyed it, but he said he'd probably never do it again because of the expense. Via might just have made their jobs more difficult.

downbeat wrote:Successful this year, but I wonder about next year. One of my friends did the trip in the new Easterly Class with his girlfriend. He throughly enjoyed it, but he said he'd probably never do it again because of the expense. Via might just have made their jobs more difficult.

Because of the expense? It cost me $35 more to take the same type of room in Easterly Class as opposed to Comfort Class Sleeper. For that I received two meals (lunch is not inlcuded) and use of the Park car, a glass or two of respectable faux champagne and use of the Park car. The cost of dinner to coach and Comfort Class Sleeper passengers is $26 and breakfast is $10. So I made $1.00 on the deal even if I didn't want to use the Park car and enjoy the presentations by the Learning Coordinator.

Admittedly, in the off-season when Easterly is offered, the difference is more because the percentage discount from peak season fares is less for Easterly than it is for Comfort. But overall I think it is a very good deal.

I was told that the number of sleepers is variable between the two classes. There are usually between three and five in Easterly Class.

The new cars are cramped and ride like a bus. Lightweight isn't better unless you're looking at fuel conservation.

Isn't it time that Bombardier drew up the plans for the next generation of North American grown Domes and Observation cars? VIA will never pay to have the work done, so the manufacturer has to pitch the client with finished plans.

Face it. EVERYBODY wants to ride the Dome for a while and enjoy some form of Observation car at the tail of the train, not in the middle. A Dome is in demand year round and shouldn't be limited to seasonal travel.

One thing about the cost of travelling on The Ocean. A few years back, I rode from Montreal to Campbellton in a Drawing Room compartment. We had to pay separately for dinner, and breakfast in the Diner was included. Despite Campbellton's arrival time being before the Diner opened, the Purser could not make an adjustment to the ticket price. We got gyped out of Breakfast. Is this still the case?

Dieter.

Dieter wrote:The new cars are cramped and ride like a bus. Lightweight isn't better unless you're looking at fuel conservation.

Isn't it time that Bombardier drew up the plans for the next generation of North American grown Domes and Observation cars? VIA will never pay to have the work done, so the manufacturer has to pitch the client with finished plans.

Face it. EVERYBODY wants to ride the Dome for a while and enjoy some form of Observation car at the tail of the train, not in the middle. A Dome is in demand year round and shouldn't be limited to seasonal travel.

One thing about the cost of travelling on The Ocean. A few years back, I rode from Montreal to Campbellton in a Drawing Room compartment. We had to pay separately for dinner, and breakfast in the Diner was included. Despite Campbellton's arrival time being before the Diner opened, the Purser could not make an adjustment to the ticket price. We got gyped out of Breakfast. Is this still the case?

Dieter.

As far as the cars being cramped, being six-foot-two I have to admit there are a few places in the corridors where I have to duck. But the bedrooms are approximately the same size as the double bedrooms in the Budd-built equipment. Alas, there are no drawing rooms. The Ren. beds are 4 inches narrower than those in the Budd sleepers, but the beds are 1 1/2 inches longer. (That information is on VIA's Website, but I took my own measurements to make sure.) The Ren. bedrooms' toilet annex (even the toilets without the shower) are much bigger than those on the Budd equipment and the toilets are full-size, unlike the Budd nursery school type "potties." So one is definitely not cramped in the "loo."

Regarding your comment: "rides like a bus" I have to say that most people - including those who don't otherwise like Renaissance equipment - admire the riding quality. I have taken 21 trips on Ren. equipment (13 in sleeper and 8 in VIA 1 coaches) and I have never ridden such smooth equipment in Canada. How many trips have you taken in Ren. cars? If only one, perhaps you had a car with a problem. Service Managers have told me that the Ren. cars are not light-weight and have been built to the composite standards of Britain, France and Germany and are quite heavy.

I have taken an average of two round-trips per year on the Ocean, and the breakfast in the diner always had to be paid for - whether continental or a cooked breakfast. The free breakfast was always a buffet in the Park car. The Montreal - Campbellton sleeper fare would be less than, say, Moncton, so this would take into account the lack of free breakfast. VIA never gives out refunds on board the train because you get off before a free meal is served, so you weren't cheated. Similarly, if you board the Ocean in the middle of the night during the period of "New Easterly Class" when dinner and breakfast are included in the fare, you obviously won't get the "included" dinner in the diner. But the fare will take that into account.

I'm glad to read that you travelled in a drawing room. There's nothing like it, is there?

marquisofmississauga wrote:

downbeat wrote: (...) He throughly enjoyed it, but he said he'd probably never do it again because of the expense. Via might just have made their jobs more difficult.

Because of the expense? It cost me $35 more to take the same type of room in Easterly Class as opposed to Comfort Class Sleeper. For that I received two meals (lunch is not inlcuded) and use of the Park car, a glass or two of respectable faux champagne and use of the Park car. The cost of dinner to coach and Comfort Class Sleeper passengers is $26 and breakfast is $10. So I made $1.00 on the deal even if I didn't want to use the Park car and enjoy the presentations by the Learning Coordinator.

Well, such a trip costs almost $2,000 return fare for two in high-season, sans promotions. Not exactly cheap.