SEPTA Proposed Capital Budget Plan "Catching Up"

Multi-Level coaches whoa. I thought SEPTA was not interested in buying any. But maybe they have had a change of heart and figure ridership is not declining why not ?. I'm just very curious to know what a SEPTA Bi-Level would look like. I think SEPTA is outlining the most projects that needs attention now as they should. MediaElwyn viaduct ,NHSL, And power stations ...good to know they in the right mindset

I wonder where they would buy the bi-levels from. Rotem took five years to deliver all the Silverliner Vs. I'm sure they don't want to go through that again. And here's another good question: would they be able to run with the bombers?

SEPTA2461 wrote:I wonder where they would buy the bi-levels from. Rotem took five years to deliver all the Silverliner Vs. I'm sure they don't want to go through that again. And here's another good question: would they be able to run with the bombers?

they're probably gonna scrap the bombers

zebrasepta wrote:

SEPTA2461 wrote:I wonder where they would buy the bi-levels from. Rotem took five years to deliver all the Silverliner Vs. I'm sure they don't want to go through that again. And here's another good question: would they be able to run with the bombers?

they're probably gonna scrap the bombers

Does that mean the overhaul plan will be scrapped as well?

SCB2525 wrote:Further research shows the hand-thrown crossover was ripped out in '08-'09. As for when it was put in; well before my time.

My research indicates it was around during the time of the RDG, as Bethayres had a freight siding in what is now the inbound side parking lot. It was ripped out wayyyy before 08/09.

Actually, you're right in that it was earlier than 08-09 but it wasn't all the way back to the RDG days. This was a tk1/2 crossover. Even if it was a vestige of a long-gone siding, it was around after that.

When were those red huts, what I assume to be TBS huts, put in? Theres one at Beth and other spots like Ivy Rock.

Notable omission from the slides; where is completion of the Cynwyd branch at-grade bridge bypass?

SCB2525 wrote:Actually, you're right in that it was earlier than 08-09 but it wasn't all the way back to the RDG days. This was a tk1/2 crossover. Even if it was a vestige of a long-gone siding, it was around after that.

When were those red huts, what I assume to be TBS huts, put in? Theres one at Beth and other spots like Ivy Rock.

Should've formatted my statement better.

The crossover was put in by the RDG, and it was ripped out much earlier than '08-'09.

Fair enough.

By the way what happened to the at-grade bridge bypass for Cynwyd.

scotty269 wrote:

SCB2525 wrote:Actually, you're right in that it was earlier than 08-09 but it wasn't all the way back to the RDG days. This was a tk1/2 crossover. Even if it was a vestige of a long-gone siding, it was around after that.

When were those red huts, what I assume to be TBS huts, put in? Theres one at Beth and other spots like Ivy Rock.

Should've formatted my statement better.

The crossover was put in by the RDG, and it was ripped out much earlier than '08-'09.

Yes, the red huts are for TBS', when they are in service. But with the rollout of 562, there won't be much of need for them anymore.

The Bilevel coaches are an interesting surprise. There are several angles possible there.

1) Bombardier Multilevels (as currently operated by NJT and AMT) have the clearance to operate on any point in the system; early speculation should probably focus here. The MLV is a proven design at this point, despite its NJT Science Experiment origins; MARC just took an order that is technically an option on NJT's most recent contract. SEPTA might be looking to use the remaining 25 unexercised option orders to spin up new car production very quickly.

2) Runs currently operated by the push-pull fleet may be seeing more growth than SEPTA is willing to handle, either with the existing fleet overhauled, or with EMUs. Those express runs have the distinct advantage of being very fast door-to-door, and timed for peak demand timeslots. With platform lengths putting the kibosh on trains longer than 7 cars, the 20% seat capacity boost may be just what the doctor ordered.

2.5) Might SEPTA be expanding the role of the push-pull fleet as peak hour express/surge capacity? If the Reading-side electrical system is getting overhauled as advertised, we could see more push-pull capacity on the Doylestown and West Trenton lines.

3) Has SEPTA found a problem with the bombers that will limit their lifespan, even with overhaul? Maybe the benefit to refurbing the bombers is sufficiently limited that it's more cost-effective to buy new.

4) The NJT option order still represents far fewer seats that currently exist in the p/p fleet. Will SEPTA be leveraging that into a base order of its own? There's really no sense in having more than one type of p/p equipment out there.

5) Maybe the above points are all backwards; instead of a fast startup with NJT's option from Bombardier, maybe SEPTA is looking to slow-walk this contract until after the FRA changes the crash safety standard from buff strength to crash energy management, which is expected in 2015. If true, a multilevel (from Bombardier or another supplier) that was significantly lighter than the current FRA-compatible MLV would be a significant win for SEPTA, and certainly a compelling reason to abort the bomber overhaul program and sell the cars to a startup line on a shoestring budget, or for scrap.

CComMack wrote:The Bilevel coaches are an interesting surprise. There are several angles possible there.

1) Bombardier Multilevels (as currently operated by NJT and AMT) have the clearance to operate on any point in the system; early speculation should probably focus here. The MLV is a proven design at this point, despite its NJT Science Experiment origins; MARC just took an order that is technically an option on NJT's most recent contract. SEPTA might be looking to use the remaining 25 unexercised option orders to spin up new car production very quickly.

2) Runs currently operated by the push-pull fleet may be seeing more growth than SEPTA is willing to handle, either with the existing fleet overhauled, or with EMUs. Those express runs have the distinct advantage of being very fast door-to-door, and timed for peak demand timeslots. With platform lengths putting the kibosh on trains longer than 7 cars, the 20% seat capacity boost may be just what the doctor ordered.

2.5) Might SEPTA be expanding the role of the push-pull fleet as peak hour express/surge capacity? If the Reading-side electrical system is getting overhauled as advertised, we could see more push-pull capacity on the Doylestown and West Trenton lines.

3) Has SEPTA found a problem with the bombers that will limit their lifespan, even with overhaul? Maybe the benefit to refurbing the bombers is sufficiently limited that it's more cost-effective to buy new.

4) The NJT option order still represents far fewer seats that currently exist in the p/p fleet. Will SEPTA be leveraging that into a base order of its own? There's really no sense in having more than one type of p/p equipment out there.

5) Maybe the above points are all backwards; instead of a fast startup with NJT's option from Bombardier, maybe SEPTA is looking to slow-walk this contract until after the FRA changes the crash safety standard from buff strength to crash energy management, which is expected in 2015. If true, a multilevel (from Bombardier or another supplier) that was significantly lighter than the current FRA-compatible MLV would be a significant win for SEPTA, and certainly a compelling reason to abort the bomber overhaul program and sell the cars to a startup line on a shoestring budget, or for scrap.

I agree. With all the points and esp.the first three. The look for multilevel cars was dead to me on SEPTA land because most ppl here said that SEPTA doesnt need them because of the ridership is not high enough. But I really feel that SEPTA can benefit from Multi-Levels because ridership has been increasing for how many years consecutively ?. Plus the express runs that operate 7 car consists . Idk if those trains are packed to capacity. But the extra room could not hurt. I think Bombardier is perfect for the building of these cars. I like their NJT MULTI LEVELS. I Like the fact that SEPTA is looking to expand and have different types of railroad cars. I'm sure those new SIEMENS vechiles would be perfect for push-pull. And with NPT in place soon it would be less hassle I hope for conductors to check two levels but passengers will be flocking to the top to sit. But the news makes me very happy and excited SEPTA wants MULTI-LEVELS. it's like every railroad in the NE has them except for Metro-North not sure. So hey why not.

Wasn't NJT looking into bi-level EMU's? Being that NJT is not as full-out into EMUs, I could see why they wouldn't go for it but such a venture might make more sense for SEPTA for Silverliner VIs.

SCB2525 wrote:Wasn't NJT looking into bi-level EMU's? Being that NJT is not as full-out into EMUs, I could see why they wouldn't go for it but such a venture might make more sense for SEPTA for Silverliner VIs.

not to hijack the thread, but it shouldn't be a silverliner VI, and for that matter the V should be called something else, too. these things don't (or won't) have anythinh to do with the budd experimental units of the late fifties.

It just so happens Silverliner is the term SEPTA co-opted as its concurrent line of EMUs. No big deal.