Southcoast Rail

Again, if Somerville wants GLX, make them pay for it

Excuse me I was a bit distracted, what with wondering if a 90 came lurching down Highland Ave, would it get me downtown faster than waiting for the next 88. When did Faw Rivah an' Nu Beffa vote to join the MBTA district? I can hardly wait for the one electrified CR line to open.

GP40MC1118 wrote:Again, if Somerville wants GLX, make them pay for it...make them pay for new houses,
moving and all of that for displaced workers from MS Walker to wherever they might
move.

D

Somerville is contributing to it, in the form of an assessment from being in the MBTA district.

Assessment is not enough!(It's only fair since you want us to pay for Soco in its entirety)
Pay for the whole thing. Maybe they can get a discount for hosting BET. And since its
partially in the People's Republic of Cambridge, maybe they can get a discount too!

"Faw River" & "Nu Beffa"? Sounds like what Hollywood considers a Boston/New England accent
when they shoot a movie based here! Get it right - It's Fall Reeve and New Beige!

d

GP40MC1118 wrote:"Faw River" & "Nu Beffa"? Sounds like what Hollywood considers a Boston/New England accent
when they shoot a movie based here! Get it right - It's Fall Reeve and New Beige!

d

If you're actually from the South Coast, then yes.

"Nu Beffa" sounds like a hearty ol' Medford (*ahem* Meffa!) accent, to me. Faw Rivah, too.

BostonUrbEx wrote:If you're actually from the South Coast, then yes.

"Nu Beffa" sounds like a hearty ol' Medford (*ahem* Meffa!) accent, to me. Faw Rivah, too.

To quote Stewie Griffn, "Are we really doin' this?"

BrandeisRoberts wrote:At least the GLX only costs a third of what SCR is supposed to cost, and I have no doubt that the GLX will see an order of magnitude more ridership compared to SCR. Now whether funneling even more traffic into the central subway is a good idea, that's up for grabs. Same with the logic behind choosing a Green Line extension instead of spending the cash on platforms and DMU's to offer Indigo style service to Woburn and Waltham, which would have been a great way to spend that $800 million.

The thing about GLX though is that it's a mandated project (like the Greenbush Line) so there's already more of a need to get cracking on that before anything else.

But SCR? The idea that an institution that's so allegedly cash-strapped that the Red Line, Orange Line and half the CR are running on shoestrings and prayers is even half-seriously considering spending 2.1 Billion to connect a pair of economically-dead mill towns to Boston via a 2 hour train ride is literally insane. Forget that we're talking about doing it with electrification, 5-mile trestles and palatial stations that will make great impromptu homeless shelters. Get a grip.

Welcome to politics

If rail access TRULY is the thing that's keeping Fall Reeve and New Beige from becoming the next Rockport or Manchester-by-the-sea, then give them diesel service with freight-clearance low/mini-high platforms and spend a little twisting the NIMBY's arms so the T can avoid a 5-mile swamp trestle and a tunnel through Easton. Then the project might, you know, actually get built, and FR/NB can save the palatial stations for when (if?) the ridership warrants it. Which, at what'll probably be $12-14 each way to Boston, it won't.

And there lies the rub. The bare minimum WOULD indeed suffice as a way to truly "test the waters" before making a more committed investment. However... other people and organizations have other ideas.

Southcoast lifer...one of those towns that abut one of those so-called "dead-end mill towns" -
despite it being the high grossing fishing port in the good ol' USA...

sigh....

D

GP40MC1118 wrote:Southcoast lifer...one of those towns that abut one of those so-called "dead-end mill towns" -
despite it being the high grossing fishing port in the good ol' USA...

This is a fact that argues against commuter rail, not for. It reveals that to the extent that the South Coast has unmet commuting needs, they'd likely be directed to the sea, not Boston. To mangle Gloria Steinam, South Coast needs Commuter Rail like a fish needs a bicycle.

Somerville OTOH has obvious latent patronage for the GLX, and the proven political will to leverage it with Further transit oriented development.

Huh?

Directed to the sea? Oh, all those island hoppers can take the "Whaler's Express" to NB,
step right on to a shuttle bus...Oh what a minute...A DMU! to the ferry and not have to
sully themselves with minimal exposure to our great unwashed.

D

People in New Bedford and Fall River generally watch Providence TV news, listen to Providence or South Coast radio stations, and have more in common with Federal Hill than Beacon Hill.

Don't think so...I don't watch the Providence stations...never as good as Boston and
Rhode Island is a state I never wanted or had much to do with. I did have nice meal
on Federal Hill the other week though, but what nothing much else..

And SOCO radio is mostly...well, lousy...WSAR in Fall River is the better of the three.

D

I can agree to disagree on the merits of SCR, whether they start working on it rightnow or eventually. Someone mentioned politics, and apart from Governor Patrick holding press conferences, who else on Beacon Hill is putting any weight on this? All the pols on the route are on board, but how much sway do they have?

I'm sure I've asked this before, but is this a thing? Reports are being issued, and NIMBYs firing up committees, but apart from minor improvements, is anything concrete making it into budgets at any level?

GP40MC1118 wrote:Don't think so...I don't watch the Providence stations...never as good as Boston and
Rhode Island is a state I never wanted or had much to do with. I did have nice meal
on Federal Hill the other week though, but what nothing much else..

The question is never "will I ride that train" or "will I know somebody who would" but rather will there be enough new riders to make it "worth it"--and both "worth it" locally (providing the most benefit per dollar) and also outcompeting everyone else's new projects in benefit per dollar. And also worth the slots at South Station. It takes math on a big scale, because we're talking money on a big scale--BILLIONS of dollars in a state that only has millions of people.

On a big scale, FR & NB are isolated from Boston, and a billion dollar trunk isn't the right "first step"...small, affordable tendrils like buses might be.

Again and again, the numbers keep looking more like Greenbush...too many hundreds of thousands of dollars per new rider, on a line that will steal slots at South Station and equipment from overcrowded other lines to an over-empty boondoggle. Instead of densifying the Providence or Middleboro line, and giving it abundant service...service worth driving to, the SCR is not only bad in itself (splitting frequencies between FR and NB) but also bad for the system--diverting frequencies from lines, where the track is *there now* (or you could lay a 3rd or 4th track for less money) and on which new trains would have "synergistic" payback (with short headways, they'd outcompete cars).

It looks like Greenbush because the reality is that SoCo does not have sufficient commuting affinities and densities with Boston to patronize a heavy rail line, while at the same time having NIMBYs galore larding up the project.

I understand the political need to keep nudging this along, but the budgetary need is to kill it in its current form and spend the money instead on electrifying the Fairmont line (for NEC capacity & reliability, and for transit-like headways). By the time SCR "makes sense" it is my hope that something else makes even more sense, like a branch from the NEC, revival of the Cape Codder, or an HOV/Bus lane on 24, or golly, or only coming with rail to Taunton. Those will, I think, make more sense, and sense sooner than SCR ever will.

At times it seems like Southcoast Rail is the last desperate grab for $2 Billion of the taxpayers money to allow two cities that have made a mess of their local business and employment situations to go on a big spending spree that will eventually have to be paid by the surrounding towns.

Everyone should download the development report from the Southcoast Rail website. Note the enormous areas of the region that are outlined for state control, read about the planned "community living" projects, and note that there is no mention whatsoever of single family homes, country living, or more traditional lifestyles. It is truly a gem of bureaucratic central planning, all to be paid for by you, the taxpayers.

MX

Southcoast rail succesfully cleared one committee. That is a long ways from being approved
by the full house or senate. Once that 2.2 G price tag comes up again (I can remember when it
was "only" $800 million) I think it will be torpedoed. Don't count on it ever being built.

Commonwealth Magazine article opposes spending money on the Southcoast Snail:

http://www.commonwealthmagazine.org/Voi ... rX9W_uFf4h" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

MX