Cannonball to operate out of Penn Station.

This is the biggest mistake the LIRR can do with this train. For over 40 years plus the train operated out of Hunterspoint Ave. What about the passengers who uses the 7 train to get a seat without fighting to get through the doors.

Called it months age... Will leave off track 19

Darn there goes one of those MNCR slots

Means either Train 2058 will have to return to 15, or 658 will have to go to 16, 17 or 21! Good move in regards to 2710/98 to alleviate both Interlocking and Platform bottlenecks at Jamaica! Also don't forget the jam-packed sardine effect in a 12 car M7 set!

This just doesn't seem like a good idea..

No Jamaica!?!?

I just read that the "new and improved" Cannonball will be instead coasting through the Jamaica instead of making a customary stop in to pick up connecting passengers, which is, in my opinion, absurd. So not only are they going to intensify the craziness of the boarding process in Penn Station, they're going to make it all that much worse by making it the only possible stop for 74 miles at which passengers can board.

I also see the LIRR cheekily snuck the departure back a couple minutes to now depart New York Penn at 4:07pm. And that smacks it it into the peak period as well (as last year's Cannonball was considered an off-peak train because it's Penn and Brooklyn connections left before 4pm). So now if you want to take the Cannonball you're going to have to fork over $27 one-way (and when you think about it that's an $8.75 increase over last year when you factor in the fare increase and the new peak-hour train).

If I was the LIRR, I would run two Cannonball's. One eight car DM set that went from Penn, express past Jamaica, right to first-stop West Hampton, then I'd have another 5-6 car single-engine train bring up the rear leaving from LIC/HPA, stopping at Jamaica to collect ATL and subway connections, then running express to West Hampton, tailing the Penn Express by 15-20 minutes.

That, in my opinion, is a win-win situation. New York folks get nonstop service and they get to save that 30+ minutes of travel time, and people from everywhere else get to keep their connectivity and civil boarding locations (HPA, et al) and don't have to spend the extra time and money to go all the way into Penn Station just to come back out again. But that's just my opinion.

The schedule would end up shaking out like this:

(*sample schedule only. not actually real)

My idea would be a compromise version: Cannonball will depart NYP shortly before 4:00 (to allow for off-peak status) and stops at Woodside and JAM. Woodside would allow for riders who might usually access the Cannonball via the #7 at HPA (from East Midtown/Grand Central) while also allowing Brooklyn connections at JAM. A win for all passengers from various origins.

Now it is a peak train. lets do the math : 12 cars w/225 people each @ $ 7.00 each for 16 weeks= $ 302,400.00 and that does not include step ups and on board fares.

LIRR42 allow me to play the role of devil's advocate....

You mention your opposition for the LIRR to now make this a peak hour train. It's because they can and they know demand will still be high. A win-win for the Long Island. Kudos to the guy second cubical from the window in the Planning Department for that suave move.

And you mention your angst for no stopping at Jamaica. Perhaps the people who see the bigger picture and not just focusing on one train see that it's one less train plugging up Jamaica, which is one of the biggest bottlenecks in rail travel in the country. Perhaps enough studies were done that they figure most of the ridership originate from the city zone and not at Jamaica, and figure the ones from the outlying terminals will connect with the clean up trains.

And... speaking of trains, just where are you going to steal equipment to run a second Cannonball? We already know diesel equipment availability, especially during the summer months is especially tight.

In conclusion, let's see how this plays out but you can't argue too much with what they're willing to try here. This will hopefully increase the OTP without the hassle of the Jamaica shuffle. It's common knowledge the protocol for 2798 to be given the entire railroad (read: minimal if any un-favorable signals or following some slow poke) out to Montauk.

The only people this will affect are those who got on at Hunterspoint ave, and most of those people come from Manhattan anyway.
So instead of having to take the 7 to hunterspoint, they can take it to times square which is one stop from Penn.
Same for those who came from Lower Manhattan via flatbush ave to meet it at Jamaica.
Now they will have to head north instead of south, again several of the Lines that go to Brooklyn also go to Penn.
To me, the Change at Jamaica for the cannonball was a logistical mess. Thousands of people getting off an Electric from Penn Station, sometimes waiting on the platform for it to arrive from Hunterspoint ave.
Makes Perfect sense to me for it to originate from Penn and skip Jamaica, should have been done a long time ago.
A one seat ride from Penn To the Hamptons without having to transfer will make it even more attractive to its target ridership.
Its a good move by the RR. The RR will increase revenue on that train now, first because it was impossible for the NY crew to get through before Jamaica, and secondly because it will now be a Peak train.
Now The Crew out of NY will only have to make one Lift, and have plenty of time to collect all transportation before westhampton.
Worked the Cannonball several times, and one of the things many of the regulars did , was Buy a Jamaica to destination ticket, because they knew the NY crews could not get through before Jamaica. Problem solved.
Seems like no matter what the RR does people will complain.
Here the RR has the Chance to offer a one seat ride to the Hamptons with no Change at Jamaica, perfect for the target ridership of the Cannonball, the wealthy from NYC summering in the hamptons.
I predict the Ridership will rise on the cannonball. Penn Is just as easy to get to as the other locations.

It's really a win-lose situation. You make some happy, some unhappy. The biggest issue is the overcrowding in Penn, that place will no doubt be a mess with this load on top of the rush hour load. And there was a small amount of people that would come from the Island to take it out of Jamaica, but it's probably in the neighborhood of a 10:1 ratio of people coming from the city.


Cross your fingers that it doesn't have issues while in E mode with such a long, heavy train. I know they've tested, but I don't think they had the weight of thousands of people, correct me if I'm wrong.

Steamboat, I think they're just relocating the cannonball to Penn, not running a second one.

Running out of Penn at peak fare does sound like a good idea, but skipping Jamaica does not. Some of those targeted riders do come from downtown Brooklyn and lower Manhattan, so this forces them onto crowded rush hour subways to Penn with their baggage...

They'd better hope the engines switch over from electric to diesel operation properly. Can't imagine one engine being able to pull (or push, depending which one fails) that long heavy train. With 12 cars and two engines going east routed for the mainline and central, you don't get up to speed until the eastward down grade between Floral Park and New Hyde Park.

I really do wonder what the back up plan will be if there is an engine failure when switching over. Are they going to have spare power stationed at Jamaica just in case engines need to be switched out? Or will they just leave the failed engines on there and stack on extra engines in the event that the original power fails?

Overcrowding at Penn? Nonsense. There already was an Electric connecting train out of Penn for the Cannonball, which met it at Jamaica. That is where the bulk of the riders came from. The additional People who used to get the train at Hunterspoint ave, and now will have to get it at Penn will not "swamp" penn station, the effect will be minor.
Some may even decide to take another train out of Hunterspoint.
Again, the cannonball's target ridership, are the wealthy from NYC who have summer homes in the hamptons. For those people it makes more sense to have a one seat ride from Penn to the Hamptons.
Besides its one train, there are other Montauk Trains People can catch at Jamaica, no one will be seriously inconvenienced by this.
Speaking from a Conductors point of view, it now will be a much better train to work. One lift, done collecting a few minutes east of Jamaica, less fare disputes,there was a lot of nonsense that went on, working that train.
(oh I left my ticket on the NY train, or You got me already before Jamaica).
All that will be done with.