by Cactus Jack
Anyone aware of photos of NYC steam (or diesel) exercising their trackage rights through Dubois or Falls Creek area on BR&P (B&O) ?
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Cactus Jack wrote:Anyone aware of photos of NYC steam (or diesel) exercising their trackage rights through Dubois or Falls Creek area on BR&P (B&O) ?Coincidental timing on your post - I recently learned that coming from the east, (for example on their Beech Creek RR) NYC used the BR&P from Clearfield through Curwensville (CB Junction for NYC Cherry Tree and related coal branches), on to C&M Jct and then DuBois and Falls Creek on the BR&P, where the NYC got on the PRR for a short way to connect to their lines west via the Franklin Division. Connecting with the Reading in Newberry, it was a back door for traffic between Philadelphia and Cleveland . Anyway, best I can do after 10 minutes is only come up with Penn Central coming off the BR&P at CB Junction near Curwensville onto ex NYC trackage. http://www.personal.psu.edu/staff/m/x/m ... yTree.html
Statkowski wrote: Was there any significant tonnage routed NYC Pennsylvania Div.-BR&P-NYC Franklin Div. for Philadelphia-Cleveland traffic? Would it have not had made sense to keep all the mileage (and revenue) to itself by routing such traffic up to Lyons, N.Y. and thence westward?From http://www.abandonedrails.com/NYC_Franklin_Division
During WWI, the JF&C routing [Jamestown, Franklin, & Clearfield] was used to bypass rail congestion at major yards on NYC, also many troop trains to bypass the same choke points.Then a few paragraphs later:
The main symbol freights operated for decades were CP2 (Chicago-Philadelphia) eastbound and LS7 (Lake Shore) westbound. They used the High Grade from Andover to Dorset then onto the Low Grade between Dorset and Ashtabula.
During WWII, these trains were run in sections, as once again the routing via NYC and Reading proved its worth again. In addition to cars brought to Andover from the south to be picked up by CP2, a new through train YP4 (Youngstown-Philadelphia) eastbound was added to move material directly from Mahoning Valley war factories to port.
In early 1950s, NYC rerouted CP2 and LS7 via the Pennsylvania Div northward into New York State. Only on occasion due to traffic congestion on the NYC's main east of Buffalo or detours would they operate on the Oil City and JF&C branches.Regarding splitting the revenue, I think the total trackage on the PRR and the BR&P between Rose (the east end of the Franklin Division, outside of Brookville PA) to Falls Creek on the PRR, and the on the BR&P to NYC rails again at Clearfield was less than 60 miles. And I would guess the trains ran through and did not get added onto PRR or BR&P trains for these sections. I once dug through on-line old employee timetables and indeed saw these trains listed. Also, if they went via the NYC main from Cleveland to Selkirk and then down to northern NJ, they would have had to use the CNJ/Reading(?) to get from northern NJ (eg. Weehawkin area) down to Philadelphia, also ~60 miles.
Cactus Jack wrote:Ok, I am confused ...I don't know which line is the one still in to Brockway, but the BR&P line from C&M junction (just south of Dubois) east to Clarion has been cut. The section from C&M Jct. to Curwensville is gone - the part from Curwensville east to Clarion is still in and part of RJ Corman. The BR&P main going south from C&M Jct is still in (part of B&P RR ?).
I thought the line still in from Falls Creek to Brockway was the old BR&P (B&O) with the parallel PRR pulled out as well as the little shortline that served the mine (forget the name of it). The PRR Low Grade now comes up from Reynoldsville and instead of crossing on the diamond goes past the tower hooking into the BR&P and ends somewhere near Clarion ?
Cactus Jack wrote:I just keep getting more confused. The BR&P to Clarion ? I thought from Falls Creek to Clarion was the PRR Low Grade to Red Bank that the NYC had rights over. The BR&P went from C&M Jct. to Clearfield, whhich indeed is gone excepting Clearfield to CB Jct. ? Never knew the BR&P went to Clarion although the P&W was out that area.You are right, not confused, It's me that made a mistake. I mixed up Clearfield and Clarion! The BR&P branch from C&M Jct went past Curwensville and CB Jct to Clearfield, with CB Jct to Clearfield now RJ Corman.
As far as I know the B&P still runs south of Dubois to Punxy and beyond.