• March 29, 1957 - The end of the NYO&W

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.

Moderator: Otto Vondrak

  by H.F.Malone
 
Anniversary Day of last train operation by the New York, Ontario & Western. "Eng 805 run Extra Cadosia to Middletown" was the last train order issued.

When I first traced parts of the line, it had only been gone for 13 years, and it wasn't easy to find then. Must be pretty well obliterated by now.... especially in Orange and Ulster Counties.
  by Cactus Jack
 
Actually the order was No. 24 dated 3-29-57 and authorized Norwich to Middletown - made complete at 8:24PM

Crew of Engine 805 was on duty at Norwich at 9pm and departed with 905 tons (5L-14Mty) at 9:12pm and ran to Cadosia.
A second crew on duty at 12:05AM March 30th ran the remaining trip to Middletown on the same train order arriving at Middletown at 3:25AM and off duty at 4AM Saturday March 30, 1957.

May the Memory of the O&W Live Forever More
  by BR&P
 
I was a bit skeptical at first - a crew on duty at 9PM, and departing at 9:12? Seemed AWFUL quick. Then I see they apparently were done at Cadosia at about midnight, making a 3-hour run for their full day's pay. Yup - in those circumstances, a crew could move quite lively! :-D
  by Alek9997
 
Thanks for the historical reminder. How many photos exist of the last O&W Train? The only one I have seen was in the book "Remembering The New York Ontario And Western, Oswego To Sidney And Branches" by John Taibi. Excellent Book, I recommend it.

Alek S
  by Cactus Jack
 
There were many photos taken of the various trains over the system on the last day. It was actually well documented but they have never been compiled in one place.

As far as the "Last Train" I doubt there were any photos as it was dark the whole time. The Middletown paper had a few photos taken that afternoon and evening of activity down there and there are two photos taken by either Millie or Hank Harter at Hamilton near sundown of X805 coming down from Oswego to Norwich. That is about all I am aware of at this time
  by erie2937
 
When I went to Colgate University in Hamilton as a freshman in September of 1959 there was a lot of the O&W to be seen. It was easy to hike the r-o-w in both directions from Hamilton. The train order signal was still standing at the depot. We used to go to the hotel in Randallsville which was next to the O&W yard. I also remember signal masts standing at the wye in Pecksport. H.T. Guillaume
  by Noel Weaver
 
frank754 wrote:There's a new article just posted yesterday on the O&W official site detailing the activities of the last day:

http://owrhs.comp-wiz.com/new/index.php ... ynarrative
This is the most interesting reading on the beloved O & W that I have seen in a long time. The information apparently is taken from the dispatcher's train sheet for that particular day. Dispatcher's sheets are interesting but somewhat difficult to work with when compiling information of this nature and it is obvious to me that it took a lot of work. I printed it out so I could put it with my other O & W stuff. I have one of the dispatcher's sheets from late 1956 and they are very interesting to look over. Thank you for providing us with this interesting link.
Noel Weaver
  by RussNelson
 
H.F.Malone wrote:When I first traced parts of the line, it had only been gone for 13 years, and it wasn't easy to find then. Must be pretty well obliterated by now.... especially in Orange and Ulster Counties.
Funny you should mention that. I and Ray Kelly spent most of the daylight hours on Saturday looking at the various remaining bits between Cornwall and Middletown. It's not completely obliterated, but it's obliterated in some spots, yeah. For some reason, the town opened up the ROW east of 84 in Middletown. You could put ties and rails back down.
  by Noel Weaver
 
I have spent the better part of several days reviewing this manuscript. It represents a huge amount of research and work and I appreciate the interesting results of all this work. I do have some comments which I hope will help and maybe add a little bit of insight to this wonderful piece of work. To add to my interest in this topic, I have one dispatcher's train sheet in my collection and it is from the New York, Ontario and Western for just about three months previous to the last day, the sheet that I have is dated December 27, 1956. Mine also shows no movements to Scranton but it does show a move to Diamond which is about 9/10 mile from Scranton. With regard to the questions: 1. I did not try to figure this one out. 2. WN-9 must have been a turn job from Middletown to Weehawken and return. 3. I have no answer. 4. I could comment on this but it would not add anything worthwhile so I will let it ride as is, I think I know the reason. 5. I agree with the answer, probably a check of the tunnel. 6. I can't add to the story here but in the period of diesel operation it was not a all uncommon for one engine to cover two different assignments in a day. 7. I can't add anything here either. 8. I suspect the two engineers might have swapped jobs on this particular day, many years ago I have seen a lot of examples of engineers, firemen, conductors and trainmen swapping jobs for one reason or another. In the 50's and 60 and into the 70's the practice was against the rules but the railroad generally looked the other way as long as nothing happened. 9. This is a good question, maybe they had a road foreman and another official take a yard engine up the line to bring back these cars to Middletown if indeed they existed at all. 10. I agree with the comments here. 11. I don't have the information mentioned. 12. Good question. 13. This is an interesting question. I wonder why they had to re-crew the job in the first place, it was pretty obvious both from reading this but from the sheet that I have that both the engine crews and the train crews ran through between Norwich and Middletown which was a distance of 147.6 miles which was certainally easily accomplished within the 16 hours that crews were permitted to work in 1957 and other trains were run between these two points with a single crew. The only things I can think of is maybe because they ran it as an extra their agrements called for Cadosia being a division point or maybe one or more crew members were on short time.
The comment of 5:50 AM is confusing to me, "Operations south of Mayfield Yard closed out" this conflicts with the timetable direction in the last employee timetable put out in 1954, the timetable direction from Cadosia to Mayfield and Scranton was north even though the compass direction was south. This was not the only example in the railroad industry where trains went in a different compass direction than timetable direction.
There were no meets probably because for the most part all of the remaining trains on this last day were headed for Middletown. The only exceptions were the two trains out of Norwich to Oneida and Rome, the two trains out of Middletown to Kingston and Monticello, the train out of Cadosia to Walton and Delhi and finally the Oswego Turn out of Norwich. Every other train was headed to Middletown with all remaining engines, cars and company equipment that could be moved probably. If you had been along the tracks on this very last day you would have seen a decent number of trains for a railroad on its last legs, there were four trains during that day from Cadosia to Middletown southbound with two additional out of Summitville (the 2 locals). There were 2 southbounds out of Norwich as well.
Let me go back three months to December 27, 1956 and although I did not do nearly as much work as was done for March 27, 1957 the information is quite interesting, incidentally December 27, 1956 was a Thursday so I would think it might have been a normal typical weekday for the most part. There was a reasonable number of trains considering the traffic they had to move although none of them exceeded 50 cars total that day. 1 round trip Middletown - Weehawken (1 F-3 for power and very short trains both directions), 2 round trips Maybrook - Mayfield (one with 802 and the other with 601), 1 round trip Mayfield - Norwich (802 and 807) and one additonal train to Cadosia and Middletown with 601. Norwich - Oswego round trip turn with 804. This represented the road through freights with road power. For locals they ran a Middletown - Cornwall turn with 113, a Middletown - Fallsburg turn with 123, a Cadosia - Walton - Delhi Branch local with 119, Two locals out of Norwich to Clinton, one to Utica with 115 and one to Rome with 129, Two jobs between Fulton and Arrowhead with 124 and 117 (note Arrowhead was 2.78 miles from Fulton on a section of the O & W that is still in regular use by CSX) and finally a bunch of stuff working around Mayfield which I did not try to figure out, some of the moves were by the same engine and crew. They also had some sort of a problem around Summitville because there was a wrecker in that area with engine 121. This leaves the Monticello and Kingston Branches out of Summitville and on this particular day no trains were operated on either one of these branches.
This leaves one unusual move that took place on the O & W well after the last trains operated and that was the movement of 9 of the NW-2's from Middletwon to Kingston for delivery to the New York Central. A question could be asked why Kingston when Campbell Hall and Cornwall were much closer? I think probably the reason for Kingston was that the Wallkill Valley Branch between Montgomery and Kingston had a high bridge at Rosendale which some engines were restricted because of weight and they probably did not want to fiddle with trying to move nine switchers across that structure coupled, to separate them would have taken a lot of time while people walked back and forth across that bridge and the Cornwall connection was at CN Tower which was abandoned and removed from service very soon after the end of O & W operations so an interchange move there would probably not be possible without a lot of work for just the one move. This left Kingston as a logical choice for this interchange. I wonder what they used for a crew on this move as the O & W had laid off virtually all of their people, maybe they had one official left who could run a locomotive on the road. Pictures of this move appeared in various publications so we know the move got made. This might have been the very last move with O & W engines on O & W track.
One final comment, working with a dispatcher's train sheet is difficult, one does not understand some of the marks and stuff and some of the writing is less than good. Again, thank you very much for a job WELL DONE!!!!!
Noel Weaver
Last edited by Noel Weaver on Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
  by Noel Weaver
 
A couple more comments here: I did not follow the O & W during its operating days, the passenger service was gone in 1953 and I was too young to ride something like this out of New York (Weehawken) at that time. Up until 1957 there was still steam on the Central Vermont and on the Pennsylvania which were both one day trips from Waterbury. In the summer of 1957 some of us took a ride over to Middletown in my new 1957 Chevrolet and looked around. There were a couple of people working in the shop to try to keep the remaining FT's and F-3's in decent condition for sale and we got a good look around the shop, they were very friendly folks and I think they were officials. There were also some people working in the station and I buttoned one of them for an employee timetable, he went but returned with a mint copy of the last timetable, no. 75 dated April 25, 1954. They never bothered to print any after that one, the passenger service was gone, the railroad broke and timetables cost money. Again the people working around the station were very friendly to all of us, I was a very new employee on the New Haven at the time and I really felt for these fine folks. Later in my career I worked with a few old timers who at one time worked for the O & W but after 1957 they hired out on either the New Haven or the New York Central as new employees. They were good railroaders.
Noel Weaver
  by Cactus Jack
 
Noel,

I am glad you liked the "End of the O&W" piece I did. Indeed it was alot of work. It took me a year, but within that year were many 100 hour weeks at work on the road so it was a very slow process. I laid out the RTM on a cot in my office and was able to work through it that way as the sheet is HUGE as you know.

With all the proofing there are a number of typos and some of the questions posed were answered but inadvertantly left as open items. This too was not a one person show as I had a number of O&W experts reviewing and commenting on it, Jeff Otto being of particular assistance and of course the O&W Archives of the O&WRRHS.

Thanks for the additional insight, much appreciated.

A couple of quick comments. Question 6 related to the ds error between FX and FN. While multiple engines could have handeled the same job, I am not sure that was the case here as it appears it was an error in the recording of that authority. The authority given to one "engine" and actually os'ed using a different engine number. I don't have enough information to know if both of those engines were in Fulton that day or the ds slipped up and mis-wrote the number as it was only off by one. I'd love to find that paperwork that resided at the Chenango County Museum which would have given numbers of both engines based at Fulton.

Question 13 I believe related to the recrew at Cadosia: I think this was due to the fact that Middletown men normally ran 9 & 10 through as you see noted Kortwright and Tompkins on NW-10. These guys were interdivsionally qualified. Many Norwich men were interdivisionally qualified north to Oswego or south into Mayfield but few seemed to be qualified to Middletown as I believe the Middletown guys "owned" that job. So by the last day I suspect that there were no Norwich crews that could run all the way though. I knew Eldred and believe he was not Conductor qualifed through to AV (Middletown). not sure the rest of that crew right off.

Re: the comment at 5:50AM closing out south of Mayfield .... well I MEANT TT North ... just got twisted around by the compass. Middletown to Scranton and Coxton / Cayuga was all done at 5:50am.

Indeed this RTM was a hard document to read and interpret, especially getting used to Hub Dixon's scratching and trying to figure out the carloads, tonnages and drops and rolling them up so they checked and double checked.

As for the 9 NW-2's - I'd sure like to know more. If the photos did not exist I would never believe it. I think you are correct as to the reason the interchange was made at Kingston.
  by Noel Weaver
 
Interesting regard the recrew at Cadosia on that very last train. Not qualified makes sense. I guess even on a railroad no bigger than the O & W not everybody was qualified everywhere. It never really occurred to me on the qualification issue. Handwriting was not a virtue among railroaders and the tight spaces on the train sheet made reading it even harder. Again, thanks for all the hard work you put in to this.
Noel Weaver
  by O-6-O
 
Great reading here fellows. Good work. What date was the 9 NW move to Kingston?