53rd St Tunnel @ Roosevelt Island

I can't find any recent thread covering this, but it has recently been revived by Benjamin Kabak of SecondAvenueSagas.com over how to serve the potential 10,000 daily users of Cornell's proposed Roosevelt Island campus:

1) Why no stop for originally for Welfare island (as it was then known) in 1933 when the 53rd St Tunnel was built for the IND?
2) Was any provision made for a stop in 1933?
3) How hard would adding a stop be now?

Benjamin Kabak of SecondAvenueSagas blog wrote:One potential “right thing” could involve exploring a new subway stop for the island. The 53rd St. tunnel passes directly underneath what will be the southern end of the Cornell campus. There’s no station right now, and I have no idea if one is even technically or economically feasible. But it would serve to anchor the campus and would nearly eliminate the need to drive to Cornell-on-Roosevelt.

(full post at http://secondavenuesagas.com/2011/12/21 ... portation/ )

1. In 1933, the island was accessible via the Queensboro Bridge by trolley or motor vehicle via a series of elevators and lifts at the midspan. This was before the current Roosevelt Island Bridge was built in 1955. Welfare Island at that time had a poor connotation, associated with prisons, mental hospitals and poorhouses.

2. No, or at least not built.

3. Unlikely due to physical conditions and the depth of the tube (the same applies to building a 1 Avenue/UN station on the #7).

I think it partly has to do with the way the tunnel is laid out. 63rd street is reatlivly more level where as trains might have a harder time making it up grade coming from a stop under Roosevelt.

Everyone: This is an interesting thought about a Roosevelt Island stop utilizing the E/M trains using the 53rd Street Tunnel...

I do not think anything like this would be built unless it was financed along with the Cornell project...especially with the
availability of the F train using the 63rd Street Tunnel nearby and the Roosevelt Island Tram in proximity...

A station under Roosevelt Island would need to be quite deep and because of the angle of the climb in both directions not
be practical for train operations as mentioned because trains would have to draw high power just one thought...

Merry Christmas!
MACTRAXX

It took YEARS for Roosevelt Island to finally receive a subway (with the tram as a "interim" substitute). Although construction began in the late 1960s, the IND 63 Street Line did not open until late 1989.

I see a few comments about not being able to get this station because trains couldn't handle the grade
Is anybody actually expecting them to do any fresh tunneling? I thought the idea on this thread was just to put a station in the existing tunnel, which then probably would be REALLY deep below the island, and need elevators, rather than having a shallow station in a new tunnel.

That also makes me wonder why the 63rd St line doesn't have the grade problems. Kamen Rider says it's relatively level. Is the river bottom different at 63rd St than it is at 53rd St? Or is it just because 63rd St station's deep, per the bastion of truth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roosevelt_ ... sportation

Located over 100 feet (30 m) below ground level, the Roosevelt Island station (F train) is one of the deepest in New York City's subway system.

PB: I believe the main difference is that the 63rd Street Tunnel was designed with the stop in the center at Roosevelt Island
as compared to an "add-on" which a new station would be utilizing the 53rd Street Tunnel...The other trouble to me would be the grade
curvature of the new station at both ends meaning that cameras or added apparatus would have to be used to allow Conductors
to clearly see all parts of a train-and would be especially important if that line is converted to OPTO...

MACTRAXX

I'm still missing something. Are you saying that the likely place for a possible 53rd St Roosevelt Island station is at the bottommost part of the tunnel, with a grade so severe that the back of the train would be on the downslope, the middle of the train at the bottom, and the front of the train on the upslope?

Patrick Boylan wrote:I'm still missing something. Are you saying that the likely place for a possible 53rd St Roosevelt Island station is at the bottommost part of the tunnel, with a grade so severe that the back of the train would be on the downslope, the middle of the train at the bottom, and the front of the train on the upslope?

PB: That is exactly what I am thinking of here-a new station would have to be directly under Roosevelt Island probably at
the deepest part of the tunnel grade...

MACTRAXX

Patrick Boylan wrote:
I'm still missing something. Are you saying that the likely place for a possible 53rd St Roosevelt Island station is at the bottommost part of the tunnel, with a grade so severe that the back of the train would be on the downslope, the middle of the train at the bottom, and the front of the train on the upslope?

34th st herald square is like that on the (B)(D)(F)(M) line right?

LES1117 wrote:Patrick Boylan wrote:
I'm still missing something. Are you saying that the likely place for a possible 53rd St Roosevelt Island station is at the bottommost part of the tunnel, with a grade so severe that the back of the train would be on the downslope, the middle of the train at the bottom, and the front of the train on the upslope?

34th st herald square is like that on the (B)(D)(F)(M) line right?

Yes-That is true...but a new station at the bottom of the 53rd Street Tunnel
grade may be even more pronounced and as mentioned would require trains to draw high power to ascend the grade in either direction after that stop...

MACTRAXX