Palomar telescope mirror train?

Hi,
I am an amateur astronomer who is interested in
creating a model display of a very specific set of cars - namely the 5 car train that transported the mirror to be used in a telescope from Corning, NY to Pasadena, CA in 1936.

To create an accurate display, I'd like to figure out as
closely as I possibly can what the cars used in the caravan
were.

The problem I am having is that I have only a few
photographs of the train and no source for any specifics.

In searching the 'net I came across Mr. Leonard's excellent website. He suggested posting my question here, that being : does anyone know what the specific car models were? For convenience, I have posted the links to the CalTech pictures below :

Photo showing the full train :
Click Here

Photo showing the (specially made?) wellhole car :
Click Here

(There are a few other images on that website, but these two basically identify what I am looking for...)

Does anyone here have any thoughts or specific knowledge as to the railcars used? I'd be very appreciative to here any ideas or suggestions for information sources (fwiw, I've already searched these archives...)

Regards,
Matt Considine

The car number 499010 can be seen in one of the photos. The following information can be found in the NYC freight car roster on the Canada Southern website http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/photo.htm
Lot no. 273-F
Built SSC-1912 (Don't know what company SSC is.)
5 cars built, 499010-499014, ex NYC&HR
37'-6" all steel well car
60 ton capacity
service 1912-1964

More information can be found on George Elwood's Fallen Flags website http://gelwood.railfan.net/nyc/nyc-frt.html . Look in the flat car section of the NYC Freight Car Diagram Book. Page F-5 has a diagram & dimensions and Page F-6 has data. SSC is Standard Steel Car Company.

5 car? Ronald Florence, in his book The Perfect Machine, describing the transport of the mirror, says three cars only: a boxcar, the well car, and a caboose, as the photo shows. Although this is an excellent book, it has no other pictures of the special train.

Does 5 maybe include the locomotive and tender?

The book also has some interesting details of the rail shipment--such as how the regular wheels of the well car--normally 33 inches in diameter--were replaced with 26 inch ones to increades the vertical clearance of the cargo. I'd bet you're already familiar with this source, but if not by all means give it a look.

There is a Quality Craft HO scale NYC 61' well car kit listed on ebay right now. It would be a fairly difficult kit if you are a novice but if done well these kits make excellent models.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 30284&rd=1

Mike Fleming
Bartlett, Tn

This is for mconsidine....if you are still active. I just came across your question about the Palomar mirror train from 1936. I am a tour guide at the Hale observatory on Palomar Mountain and asked the exact same questions as you have. I have built 3 models of the train. One is H.O., on is "S" scale and finally a "G"scale of the "wellcar" itself. If you still have any questions...please email me back. I know its been 4 1/2 years since your original post, so this reply is probably no longer valid. But I would like to see what you built.
Thanks !

At the NYCSHS convention in Geneva, back in April of this year, Bob Scheib gave a detailed and comprehensive talk on the mirror train. His father was involved in the operation. Bob lives near me and would probably be happy to communicate with people who share his interests. Hugh T. Guillaume

My, this post takes me back! That train went through Pittsford, NY on the West Shore. I was in sixth grade at the time and we were allowed to walk down to the Monroe Avenue crossing (about two blocks) to watch it come through. And no! Don't ask me how many cars there were. That was 73 years ago. Ted

j schwabe here...San Diego with more about the 200" mirror train.
I have talked with Bob Scheib...(actually e and snail mail) and have seen the work his dad did back in 1936. He lives in Akron NY...I grew up in Akron OH and my dad was 13 when the train went by his neighborhood in Cleveland on March 27, 1936.,but he doesn't remember anything about it. You can see some "footage" of the train ride in the documentary made last year..."Journey to Palomar". Log onto "hulu" and stream the movie. The train sequence starts about 1hr 4 minutes into the film.
The engine and caboose were changed 3 times. First was a Mohawk L2-A # 2714 from New York Central. C,B,&Q took it for a very short trip from St. Louis to Kansas city. April 2nd it left for the west coast on Santa Fe 2-8-2 engine # 3157. It arrived in Pasadena on April 10, 1936 among thousands of people lining the tracks for the arrival. It went into the optical shop at Cal Tech...and didn't leave for 11 1/2 years ! WW II put a big delay in polishing the mirror. It finally arrived at Palomar Mountain on November 19, 1947...almost 13 years after it was poured in Corning NY in December of 1934. It STILL had final polishing to be done "on site"... and really didn't start seeing stars on a regular schedule until late 1949! 15 years...start to finish...but it is still being used every clear night.
In fact the latest images of the "crash" into the moon a few weeks ago, when NASA sent a probe into a dark crater..were taken by the 200" mirror. The images were considered to be "THE BEST" (of any photos) taken from earth! She may be old ...but still shines beautifully!
more info can be obtained by contacting me directly @ [email protected]

Enjoy your History...( but don't repeat it)
jay

I'm a former employee of Corning and I have an 8x10 (B&W )photo of the loaded well car in front of the main office building prior to shipment.I never tried scaning it so I don't know how it would turn out.
Verg3317

I'm guessing that the photo you have is the one taken in front of the big brick building with lots of windows and 3 or 4 men on the right side of the photo. I used that as my main reference for making my models. If I can find a way to attach a photo to this post...I will send one of the model.
jay

I'm writing a history of the Catholic Church in Barstow, California and we had a number of people who worked for the railroad. When I found the article in the newspaper on the telescope mirror being moved through Barstow, I decided it was worth mentioning, but I really wanted a picture as well. I want to thank all of you who have provided details and information that I did not have on this fascinating little bit of history. And I really did want to thank you because I went through all the hoops to register just so I could post a really sincere thanks.
Phyllis K

Thought others might be interested in the newspaper article from the Barstow Printer when the mirror train came through Barstow. The following is a transcript of that article.
Phyllis

April 9, 1936
Lens of World’s Largest Telescope Passes Through
Barstow Wrecker Used to Unload Valuable Shipment in Pasadena
The lens for the largest telescope in the world arrived in Barstow at 5 o’clock this afternoon, after about 6 ½ hours’ run from Needles. The special train transporting this valuable equipment across the continent consist of the engine, box car holding loading equipment, flat car with the lens and a caboose.
The Barstow “wrecker” which is the largest on the coast and has the longest “boom” was sent to Pasadena today for the purpose of unloading this special shipment. Division Foreman Arthur Birch of Barstow and Paul Denn, wrecking crew foreman, accompanied the “wrecker” and will unload the lens Friday morning
The valuable shipment arrived under special guard with Division Special Agent Fred Smithson in charge. A slow day light schedule of 25 miles an hour has been maintained across the continent and the shipment has been given every possible care to assure it safe arrival in Pasadena. Here it will undergo a year o careful polishing and grinding n a specially constructed shop before it is installed in the largest telescope at Mount Palomar astronomical observatory.

Cool! Thanks for sharing that. The advance planning and coordination must have taken months or more likely years.