Overhead clearances

What is the loading guage for EL? Under the old DC wire? Today's wire? Can they double-stack on the EL?

The Lackawanna Electric Pantographs have a maximum extension from top of rail or Above Top of Rail (ATR) of 25 ft 6 inches. The ATR for the EMD FT's is 15 feet. I don't know if the voltage change in 1984 altered the height any. Since we are talking about maximum extension the actual clearance is probably less than that. So at best it is 10 ft from the top of an F cab unit to the wire.

There is a periodical by the National Railroad Publishing Company called Railway Line Clearances which was published annually I don't have access to it right now.

The Bergen Tunnels into Hoboken won't clear double stacks for sure because there is a note in William Sheppards book Track Schematics of the Erie Lackawanna that TOFC traffic is restricted from using tracks 3 and 1 thru Bergen Tunnel.

Double Stacks on the Morris and Essex Lines are out!!!

NJ Transit will not allow Double Stacks under the Catenary!

Double Stacks tend to produce measurements of 18 ft to 20 ft ATR.

While the 22 ft railroad tradition of clearing a man standing on top of a boxcar should in theory clear double stacks there is an added problem of current jumping the wire to the steel roof of a freight car and frying a person riding up there or shorting out to the track structure or blowing around in the wind or sagging. Clearance standards taking that into account add 5 ft so you would need 27 ft ATR between the wires and Top of Rail Head.

Here are clearances on the Morris and Essex Division from the DLW employee timetable no 90.

Item 157 Structures less than 21 feet above top of rail (22 feet in Pennsylvania) which may not clear man standing on top of cars or engine tenders and overhead wire or cable lines less than 27 feet above top of rail.

Areas where clearance is less than 21 ft for structures and 27 feet for cable lines are notated in timetable

Hoboken-Dover (via Morristown)
Entire Territory..All Catenary structures
Bergen Tunnel tracks 1 and 3...clearance is 15 ft 4 inches.
Bergen Tunnel tracks 2 and 4...clearance is 17 ft 4 inches.
West End to Denville................clearance is 15 ft 6 inches.

In short forget about double stacks on Ex Lackawanna electrified tracks.

Are there any restrictions Dover-Binghampton (and formerly to Buffalo)?

Dover is MP 38.12

Clearance less than 22 feet all Structures less than 27 feet wires.

38.44......Prospect St Bridge
38.50......Blackwell Street Bridge
40.16......CNJ Bridge...
40.17......Main St Bridge
44.65.....Overhead Bridge
45.53.....Hopatcong Station..(this has been demolished)
46.70.....Overhead Wire
48.00.....Signal Bridge..(Demolished)
51.57.....Roseville Tunnel...???
57.53.....Highway Bridge
57.81.....Highway Bridge
63.24.....Highway Bridge
64.28.....Highway Bridge
65.41.....Highway Bridge
66.38.....Farm Crossing Bridge
74.10.....Highway Bridge
82.14.....Overhead Wire
83.30.....Coaling Station (Demolished)
85.30.....Highway Bridge

and on and on all the way to Buffalo. The timetable doesn't give the clearance though. So I am not entirely sure double stacks can't go.
EL did have a program of expanding clearances on the Scranton Line prior to the Conrail takeover I don't know how far they got.

Getting double stack clearance involves undercutting the track considering the cost of relaying the cut-off thats relative. The big thorn in all of this is getting these trains East of Paterson. You could theoretically build a connection on the North Side of the tracks West of Dover and use the CNJ thru Dover and than join back east run a double track line on the North Side of the tracks thru Denville and swing out on the Boonton line keeping to the North. NJ Transit turns the corner at Mountain View just keep going into route 80 thats when you get screwed

M&Eman wrote:Are there any restrictions Dover-Binghampton (and formerly to Buffalo)?

Lots. Stacks are handled from BINGHAMTON to Scranton now, then down to Allentown or Sunbury and Harrisburg. Auto racks used to be taken east from BINGHAMTON to Mt. Pocono, how that "racks" up against stacks is probably pretty close. Mt. Pocono to Port Morris is pretty clear for stacks, but once to PM there is no place to go. So don't worry, THERE WILL BE NO STACK TRAIN NOR GARBAGE TRAINS ON THE CUT OFF! But such traffic is on Route 80 now.

HSSRAIL wrote: and on and on all the way to Buffalo. The timetable doesn't give the clearance though. So I am not entirely sure double stacks can't go.

EL did have a program of expanding clearances on the Scranton Line prior to the Conrail takeover I don't know how far they got.

I watched them do the Nay Aug Tunnel and the bridge on the north end over the Rocky Brook. I remember alot of COFC & TOFC running thru Scranton. In fact alot of the container traffic was TOFC w/ (2) 20' containers & chassis on piggyback cars; sometimes w/ a COFC on the other end w/ the car fifth wheel folded down out of the way...containerization was still in it's infancy...

henry6 wrote:

M&Eman wrote:Are there any restrictions Dover-Binghampton (and formerly to Buffalo)?

Lots. Stacks are handled from BINGHAMTON to Scranton now, then down to Allentown or Sunbury and Harrisburg. Auto racks used to be taken east from BINGHAMTON to Mt. Pocono, how that "racks" up against stacks is probably pretty close. Mt. Pocono to Port Morris is pretty clear for stacks, but once to PM there is no place to go. So don't worry, THERE WILL BE NO STACK TRAIN NOR GARBAGE TRAINS ON THE CUT OFF! But such traffic is on Route 80 now.

That is not my concern. I was just wondering the feasability of the DL&W as an alternate route for the Lehigh, Erie and CNJ lines if needed.

HSSRAIL wrote: In short forget about double stacks on Ex Lackawanna electrified tracks.

While I generally agree with this statement, I just want to point out that double stacks do presently operate under catenary wire on the CSX Trenton Line (SEPTA R3 West Trenton Line) between Trent interlocking and CP Wood at Woodbourne. Different clearances, different power, but stacks can fit under catenary in the right circumstances.

Wow...can't believe I remembered the right numbers for EL wire from 25 years ago. 15' 4" and 17' 4".. I seem to remember that the wire Denville to Dover is 17' 4"; better clearance for the road freights. "High wire" for the EL

pdt