New to the Railroad

Engineer Spike, what you wrote said it all. The trials & tribulations starting out on the railroad with furloughs, getting bumped, working other terminals ect... the begining years makes a persons skin tougher to appreciate when they can finally hold a steady job working year round. What do we do it for? To provide for our family to have a comfortable life. After going through the hurdles I don't know any railroaders who are struggling. Along the carreer there are always bumps in the road especially with the railroad I worked for CSX. I remember in 1995 after 18 years on the railroad they moved our ID jobs to a terminal 234 miles away. I moved with the work stayed in a bunkhouse on property for 3 1/2 years till finally I had enough CSX wasn't going to offer any moving packages for relocation. Went back to Richmond my last 8 years on the road had a great run it was only 72 miles most times we turned or was deadheaded back home. The last years were spent on a yard pusher job made some good overtime and was home every night.

Freddy suggestion of taking a yard or local job is good advice. In one on my marraiges I wish I took that advice. She had a good job but I loved the road. I look back should of spent 2-3 months on the road then spent 2-3 months in the yard it could of saved the marraige.

Many people here have described it well in these threads. However as a new hire myself on the job for several weeks I can tell you one thing- there is a BIG disconnect between management and the crews. Very "Us vs. Them" mentality. Trainmasters are generally hated as "bad guys" and crews seem to have all sorts of ideas about the "sneaky" things they do (hiding in bushes, dressing in camo, hiding on equipment, ect) trying to "bust people". Also there are many whiners who complain about all the crackdowns that go on but blatantly break rules (reading in locos, using phones, improper body positions,ect) as they are complaining. The Unions are full of squibs and arent to be trusted, but dont tell that to the Legions of "Union Men" who abound and are looking to stick it to management in any investigation they can represent their members in. All in all for the amount of money some of these people make for the amount of work they actually do they come off as crybabies......

Several weeks, you say?


and already talking smack on other workers. Three letters: OST.

Yep, looks like a future management type. I hate to break it to you, but if you are an agreement employee they ARE out to get you. I have 16 years out here and that is how many persons are promoted, based on thier skill at catching other people, not thier skill at moving freight. And yes, I have personally seen camo'ed managers come crawling out of bushes with my own eyes.

It's always been "Us vs Them". Management has never been a friend even when there were decent TM's. I had a lot of respect for some TM's & RFE's years ago back then they came out of the crafts not hired off the street like these days. Still they had their job we had ours to do. I'd like to hear your response after you get some whiskers. I've seen more than my fair share of newbies that changed their tune after a few years. LOL!

Someone has yet to see a weed weasel!

hbgdispatcher wrote:Yep, looks like a future management type. I hate to break it to you, but if you are an agreement employee they ARE out to get you. I have 16 years out here and that is how many persons are promoted, based on thier skill at catching other people, not thier skill at moving freight. And yes, I have personally seen camo'ed managers come crawling out of bushes with my own eyes.

I have already seen the TM's hiding behind embankments and bushes and the Conductors/Engineers I have worked with have always pointed them out and explained their tricks. Some Trainmasters have talked with us during our training and told us flat out they are "encouraged" to seek out rule violations and fire people for breaking them. Its obvious that many of them have no idea what the ground job even involves, most of them have never been in T&E crafts. That doesnt change the fact people are breaking the rules at the same time (literally) as they are complaining about them trying to fire people. I mean how do you defend someone who is doing a crossword puzzle and getting texts on a running/moving train (yes, I have seen it) WHILE talking about how the TM's are going after everyone? Why make it so easy for them to bust you while they are sitting out there with binoculars? The culture has to change on BOTH ends, but it probably wont anytime soon- both the higher up management and the Union management wont let that happen....

gp80mac wrote:Several weeks, you say?


and already talking smack on other workers. Three letters: OST.

Smack? So me being a new observer and commenting on how I hear/see things to operate is "smack"? Watching the TM's and Union Officials go at each others throats because both sides thinks they are in the right isnt talking smack, its a sad commentary. And yes, the Unions are political organizations that play games and use their member dues to lobby and enrich their top management. Just as bad as the RR management if you ask me, you dont play ball with either side then your going to be forced out of a job somehow.

Yes. It is.

You think you are the first guy to wonder in here (or in the yard office) spouting those exact thoughts? Work a couple years and then come back to this post; you're too new to have an opinion yet. We'll see how your thoughts change when you get written up/taken out of service for something stupid.

bretylium wrote:

I have already seen the TM's hiding behind embankments and bushes and the Conductors/Engineers I have worked with have always pointed them out and explained their tricks. Some Trainmasters have talked with us during our training and told us flat out they are "encouraged" to seek out rule violations and fire people for breaking them. Its obvious that many of them have no idea what the ground job even involves, most of them have never been in T&E crafts.

Their function use to be running a railroad yard, subdivision ect...not playing junior G-Men. This is relatively new within the past 5-6 years. You hit the nail on the head when you wrote "most of them have never been in T&E crafts.". How can they instruct a train crew when they've never done the job? They made me a lot of overtime through their ignorance and arrogance. I understand how management is run these days nothing moves till HQ gives the OK then it's passed to the TM then on to the YM. I've sat in crew rooms & yard shacks for hours sometimes changes were made multiple times. It use to be the YM completely controlled the yard they moved everything in & out. Now they don't make a move till the TM gives instructions. I've had TM's tell me how to make a switch ect...which was fine could of done it in an hour doing it their way it became an overtime move. That's managements arrogance plus a lot of ignorance. There's no trust on managements part anymore. You might think this is a fight between unions & management rest assure it's not.

COEN77 wrote:

bretylium wrote:

I have already seen the TM's hiding behind embankments and bushes and the Conductors/Engineers I have worked with have always pointed them out and explained their tricks. Some Trainmasters have talked with us during our training and told us flat out they are "encouraged" to seek out rule violations and fire people for breaking them. Its obvious that many of them have no idea what the ground job even involves, most of them have never been in T&E crafts.

Their function use to be running a railroad yard, subdivision ect...not playing junior G-Men. This is relatively new within the past 5-6 years. You hit the nail on the head when you wrote "most of them have never been in T&E crafts.". How can they instruct a train crew when they've never done the job? They made me a lot of overtime through their ignorance and arrogance. I understand how management is run these days nothing moves till HQ gives the OK then it's passed to the TM then on to the YM. I've sat in crew rooms & yard shacks for hours sometimes changes were made multiple times. It use to be the YM completely controlled the yard they moved everything in & out. Now they don't make a move till the TM gives instructions. I've had TM's tell me how to make a switch ect...which was fine could of done it in an hour doing it their way it became an overtime move. That's managements arrogance plus a lot of ignorance. There's no trust on managements part anymore. You might think this is a fight between unions & management rest assure it's not.

Coen,

Let the young man come back and post in a few years, Betcha you'll see a different man! Not to be disrespectful, but you ain't been around along to judge what the guys are telling you. It is a typical attitude of new employees to think they are going to waltz in and change everything to suit them! Got a shock for you: it's been this way for 150 years, and YOU ain't gonna change it now. That's just the way it is. Some of it IS simply a matter of experience vs ignorance, plain and simple. The fellas are telling it like it is! Yes, there's slackers, and they should be dealt with. It is not fair to the other workers who ARE conscientious for these to sit on their duff not pulling their weight.

I had a supervisor in a shop once who had never taken the rules exam. He'd been a pencil pusher in an office for 30 years. He ordered me to remove a blue flag on a track one day. I tried to explain that I couldn't do that; I'd have to go get the guy that PUT it there in the first place. He had not a clue about Blue flags. He told me not to worry about "that" stuff; he wanted that flag removed. On the way to remove the flag I detoured thru the Superintendent's office and told his assistant what the boss had ordered me to do. He called him immediately and lectured him that I WAS, indeed, correct. I could not remove a blue flag without input from the person who put it there. Sure, it embarassed the boss, and got him scolded. Later on, in another scenario, a blue flag DID get arbitrarily removed while shop forces were working on a machine. Different people involved, but BOY! Was there ever a stink about THAT! Luckily no one got hurt by the switcher shoving in and the discrepancy was caught. Lot of hell raised over that one!

Me, I believe that supervisors should come from the ranks. They make better bosses because they know what the men face everyday. The "shavetail lieutenant"
types are clueless!!!!! The "I'm gonna change the world" newbies are as well!

GF

Glad you got him schooled Gladfly. That would be a good way to get a mechanical guy killed.

craigdebi wrote:I am a 25 year plus railroad wife, having your husband on call 24/7 isn't nice. Even when he can hold seniority the job still has goofy hours. Life is daily, kids in school are daily, railroad life usually affords absolutely no schedule or if it has one it does not run via 8 to 5 daily with week ends off. I have reached the end of my rope, I can't take the schedule anymore, I can't seem to make my husband understand that he will be making a choice between his job or being married to me. I am tired of being an only parent, I am tired of spending every week end and evening alone with no one to talk to, I am lonely and want the father of my children home and involved in their day to day life. Divorces are high on the railroad due to 24/7 schedule not being home for birthdays, Christmas, Easter, or any other celebration your family takes place in. He isn't here to attend weddings, funerals, or school functions for his kids. As far as I am concerned the compensation isn't worth what it has cost us as a family, and the tole it has taken on our marriage. I am hanging in by a thread, if he does not figure out something different to do, its not going to be nice, its come down to me saying I won't do this anymore, and him saying he won't change jobs so we are at a fork in the road, sadly both of us will lose, so will our kids that are still at home. Good luck, but if you value your family find a different line of work and don't stress life the way working for a railroad will.

Pathetic.Your husband is busting his ass working a job with great pay and benefits and one that will ensure your family a much better than normal lifestyle when he retires,he has survived working 25 years so far in an industry where individuals can get let go for the most minor of infractions.He has been employed for 25 years with a steady paycheck and lifstyle for your family.Your husband has a fantastic work ethic,or he would not be working for the railroad.

You now want to destroy his entire life and his career,one that has supported YOUR family by completly uprooting it?? You claim you are "lonely"??

DEAL WITH IT!!!! You selfish individual.Your husband has SACRIFICED a lot to be where he is and all you can do is whine????? Try talking to MILLIONS of Americans who have had their lives decimated by the great Recession and have NO prosects of finding a job anytime soon.

I feel bad for your husband.I feel for him because he married a woman like yourself.He sounds like a great guy and I guarantee you,he is.He is going to be penalized by you for working and providing for his family in a great job that the majority of Americans would love to have.

I am glad I read your post though.The woman I was engaged to when I started working as a motorman for the New York City Transit Authority nearly 3 years ago,gave me an ultimatum last.Her,or my motorman job.

Suffice it to say,the choice was EASY.

I have said this before and i will say it again....

If you like $$$$$$$$$$$$ and don't mind being there for 12 hours, modern management (never been a conductor or engineer) will make you boat loads of money with doing hardly any work. I HATE OT, i like going home after 8. But i have to admit i have had many days i made major cash with about 45 to 50 min of actual work. I even had trains where i took hand brakes off and put them back on, the same ones i took off 12 hours previously and never turned a wheel, and that's all i did in twelve hours and made about $400 in the process.

My wife says people work every second of an 8 hour shift for 5 days a week for what you just made doing 15 min worth of work for 12 hours. I tell her "i just do as i am told, if someone who actually had "experience" telling what to do today i would have worked my ass off for twelve hours. But they hire management who knows nothing about trains and they just fill my pockets with gold doing exactly what they tell me to do, which creates havoc and i do nothing because nothing can move because you cant put 10 pounds of sand in a 5 pound bag. Most new guys who have worked in the "real" world tell us experienced railroad men they have NEVER made so much money for doing so little. We just say, its their railroad, they say the know what there doing, just open your pockets and the will just stuff money in there for you WANTING to feel productive and do work, and management will do everything possible for you to do nothing and be the most unproductive worker in the US while doing "what they or telling you to do or your terminated" I have meet guys who have quit because they "cant" be unproductive because its not in there nature. But it is "their" railroad, and they don't want my experience and knowledge to actually make things run smother and preform "more" work in my 8 hour shift, then doing basically nothing and making boat loads of money in 12 hours by doing what management has planed for me.

It scares me because if the railroads stopped making money hand over fist, like the 1950's- 1990's , and actually needed to be proficient in running trains to make ends meet, i am screwed..Because there is nobody in charge who knows how to do this....

rant out

I noticed even after retirement my patience level is extremely high. All those decades of waiting wether it was for paperwork, sitting on trains for hours for a signal, violating the HOS waiting for transportation, sitting in lodging when projected line ups fell through ect....nothing ever moved fast. I remember as a young locomotive firemen working a local out of a terminal 125 miles from home use to stay up there for 6 days mon-sat with sunday off it was light work day in a 6am should be off by 11am. We got the work done the locomotive engineer told me do what it takes to get us back in. I slapped that throttle in #8 with a hand full of cars & a caboose. We got stopped at every signal on double track or put into a siding waiting on other trains. Everytime I got frustrated I'd look down out the side window there was the conductor who walked up from the caboose. He would spit his tabacco juice and tell me "drink plenty of cool water boy and walk slow". I didn't get it the first few sidings but it finally dawned on me he was right. The only person who got frustrated was me that no matter what I did it wasn't going to change anything. Those oldheads were wise.