New Jersey Seashore Lines: was CNJ being cleard Woodmansie>N

Hulka wrote:

CJPat wrote:My wife humored me and let us swing by the area so I could get a look see as well.

I had never noticed the PRR connector track in the weeds adjacent to the Southern Div/Southern Secondary along Manchester Blvd before. It just sort of runs into the ground about a hundred feet or so before reaching Lacey Rd. I am amazed they left the switch in-line for all those years. I guess, as seen in jrzwalker 86's pic, that they may be planning to rehab the switch and make a storage siding out of that? The exposed section of rail is only a few hundred feet long. Looking at the historical aerials, it looks like the connector has not been used at least the later 60's or early '70's (Didn't the PRR run to the edge of the GSP in South toms River until around 1965?)

Correct me if I am wrong but I thought the PRR tracks crossed over by the Whiting First Aid building and headed Northeast towards South Toms River? Isn't that just a siding over by the park?

The PRR crossed the CNJ roughly where Diamond Road crosses the tracks (hence the name "diamond") as it headed towards South Toms River following the High Tension Wire ROW. But the PRR and the CNJ exchanged cars at the junction so a connector track came off the CNJ and curved over to join the PRR on the west side of the CNJ track. Take note of how the back property of the shopping mall is a curve rather than straight lines. The property line follows the RR ROW.

I believe the Tuckerton RR used to connect to the CNJ on the other side of the CNJ's track near where the PRR Connector switch is. The Tuckerton RR ran off along Station Rd/Lake Rd and obviously off to Tuckerton. I believe there was a connector from the PRR to the Tuckerton as well that occured on the east side of the CNJ (corrections welcome).

CJPat, you are correct; the current siding alongside the main by the park is indeed the north end of the old PRR connecting track. There was also a 2500ft. passing siding on the other side of the tracks (CNJ) that began at Lacey Rd. and continued northward.
The Tuckerton RR did also have connecting tracks to both the CNJ (east of the diamond) and PRR (just south of the diamond), but the 1920 map in 'The Trail of the Blue Comet', page 210, indicates that they were removed in 1913.
(Btw, I have an extra edition if anyone is interested)
Chris

Pre-1913 there were three different wye arrangements, with three diamonds. You could go from any line to any other. It was "cleaned up" and Tuckerton's line west across the CNJ to the PRR was terminated east of the CNJ and a turntable was installed.The Tuck's interchange north across the PRR to the CNJ was also terminated, and realligned to go west on the Pennsy. All interchange was then via the CNJ south-to-PRR west leg of the wye.

The directions given are map/cardinal directions. Railroad "west" and "east" here would just complicate it.

Chris, how much for the book?

RailsEast wrote:

wolfboy8171981 wrote:What if the commodity moved is not sand?

Apparently, there is a rumor circulating in Manchester regarding rail service; these are excerpts from the Manchester Twp. council minutes (albeit not so recent):

9/26/2011 - "Mr. Weiner discussed the rail line that will be going through Whiting. It will run 13 miles from Woodmansee to Lakehurst. It is run by Clayton Block. He said it will have less impact on the infrastructure. It will help Clayton get their product from one location to another. They will be able to use one rail car compared to the four trucks that they would normally use on the road. This may one day lead to a rail line that will have excursions for tourists through the Pine Barrens similar to Cape May."

1/23/2012 - "Mr. Fusaro met with the Manchester Township Coordinating Council. They had a good amount of representatives present from the senior villages. The area of greatest concern was the reassessment. The second area of concern was the railroad crossing. It is rumored that there will be a passenger train service that would increase the number of trains and noise."

Again, just a rumor.......

If you bought a house that is along or near to railroad tracks, then don't be surprised if one day a train passes by. I find it hard to believe people are that stupid enough to buy a house near to rr tracks and then get upity about the 'noise' produced by the trains.

Bluesman, as my father used to say, no one ever went broke understimating the stupidity of the American public.

We are talking about seniors here that have nothing better to do but worry about things that may change. Of course they will complain about it. I actually met someone today during my yard sale search who told me they ENJOYED the sound of the trains at night, because it helped them sleep.

Here is a look of that area on a RR map from 1887

http://mapmaker.rutgers.edu/HISTORICALM ... _of_NJ.jpg

Once upon a time, the Whitings area was so busy with rail traffic that Pennsy looked to either double track their Phila & Long Branch line, or bypass Whitings and their Tuckerton trackage rights to go to Manahawkin via their own line from Medford.

Fourteen different lines were proposed to go to Manahawkin or Tuckerton.

Whitings was considered a "bottleneck". Interesting "what if" scenarios here.

ApproachMedium wrote:We are talking about seniors here that have nothing better to do but worry about things that may change. Of course they will complain about it. I actually met someone today during my yard sale search who told me they ENJOYED the sound of the trains at night, because it helped them sleep.

I love the sound of a train going by, I find it soothing.

I'd rather have a railroad next to my house than a freeway. By the way....an updated GP or SD locomotive is actually quieter at idle than many heavy trucks.

rrbluesman wrote:

RailsEast wrote:

wolfboy8171981 wrote:What if the commodity moved is not sand?

Apparently, there is a rumor circulating in Manchester regarding rail service; these are excerpts from the Manchester Twp. council minutes (albeit not so recent):

9/26/2011 - "Mr. Weiner discussed the rail line that will be going through Whiting. It will run 13 miles from Woodmansee to Lakehurst. It is run by Clayton Block. He said it will have less impact on the infrastructure. It will help Clayton get their product from one location to another. They will be able to use one rail car compared to the four trucks that they would normally use on the road. This may one day lead to a rail line that will have excursions for tourists through the Pine Barrens similar to Cape May."

1/23/2012 - "Mr. Fusaro met with the Manchester Township Coordinating Council. They had a good amount of representatives present from the senior villages. The area of greatest concern was the reassessment. The second area of concern was the railroad crossing. It is rumored that there will be a passenger train service that would increase the number of trains and noise."

Again, just a rumor.......

If you bought a house that is along or near to railroad tracks, then don't be surprised if one day a train passes by. I find it hard to believe people are that stupid enough to buy a house near to rr tracks and then get upity about the 'noise' produced by the trains.

One would expect so. Last year on the way home from brakeman duty on the BR&W and stopped in a local coffee place, happened to overhear a conversation. Someone was complaining that the realtor never told them that there was a tourist train nearby that blew horns, etc. when they bought their house in the winter when we don't run passenger. The person was contemplating (1) suing the realtor, and (2) starting an action to shut down the railroad. Just venting, I suppose.

Now, wonder what they will say now that 60 is back in passenger service? Steam whistle, exhaust barking, exhaust plume . . . Tickets on sale now at: http://www.flemingtontrain.org/welcomeBack60.html

RailsEast wrote:

wolfboy8171981 wrote:What if the commodity moved is not sand?

1/23/2012 - "Mr. Fusaro met with the Manchester Township Coordinating Council. They had a good amount of representatives present from the senior villages. The area of greatest concern was the reassessment. The second area of concern was the railroad crossing. It is rumored that there will be a passenger train service that would increase the number of trains and noise."

Again, just a rumor.......

Thats rich. If anybody wants to exemplify how unlikely passenger service with any sort of frequency is; show them the 5-year opperating record on the CMSL. They cant figure out the logistics to run a tourist train in a tourist town, much less between the massive metropolis of Lakehurst and the Tokyo-Yokohama of Central Jersey, Whiting.

Hawaiitiki wrote:

RailsEast wrote:

wolfboy8171981 wrote:What if the commodity moved is not sand?

1/23/2012 - "Mr. Fusaro met with the Manchester Township Coordinating Council. They had a good amount of representatives present from the senior villages. The area of greatest concern was the reassessment. The second area of concern was the railroad crossing. It is rumored that there will be a passenger train service that would increase the number of trains and noise."

Again, just a rumor.......

Thats rich. If anybody wants to exemplify how unlikely passenger service with any sort of frequency is; show them the 5-year opperating record on the CMSL. They cant figure out the logistics to run a tourist train in a tourist town, much less between the massive metropolis of Lakehurst and the Tokyo-Yokohama of Central Jersey, Whiting.

The comparison is perhaps not proper. CMSL trackage does not have freight service so all costs of inspection, maintenance, etc. must be borne entirely by the passenger operation. Most of those costs for the line under refurbishment will be there and thus paid by the freight service whether passenger runs or not. So the economics are that to the extent that the passenger operation can cover all its variable costs, it can be run, and to the extent it covers any more than its variable costs, it makes economic sense to do so.

Hawaiitiki wrote:

RailsEast wrote:

wolfboy8171981 wrote:What if the commodity moved is not sand?

1/23/2012 - "Mr. Fusaro met with the Manchester Township Coordinating Council. They had a good amount of representatives present from the senior villages. The area of greatest concern was the reassessment. The second area of concern was the railroad crossing. It is rumored that there will be a passenger train service that would increase the number of trains and noise."

Again, just a rumor.......

Thats rich. If anybody wants to exemplify how unlikely passenger service with any sort of frequency is; show them the 5-year opperating record on the CMSL. They cant figure out the logistics to run a tourist train in a tourist town, much less between the massive metropolis of Lakehurst and the Tokyo-Yokohama of Central Jersey, Whiting.

I thought this was a discussion regarding the reactivation of the CNJ. If you really feel the worthless need to tear into Tony and the CMSL, take it to another thread.

glennk419 wrote:

Hawaiitiki wrote:

RailsEast wrote:

wolfboy8171981 wrote:What if the commodity moved is not sand?

1/23/2012 - "Mr. Fusaro met with the Manchester Township Coordinating Council. They had a good amount of representatives present from the senior villages. The area of greatest concern was the reassessment. The second area of concern was the railroad crossing. It is rumored that there will be a passenger train service that would increase the number of trains and noise."

Again, just a rumor.......

Thats rich. If anybody wants to exemplify how unlikely passenger service with any sort of frequency is; show them the 5-year opperating record on the CMSL. They cant figure out the logistics to run a tourist train in a tourist town, much less between the massive metropolis of Lakehurst and the Tokyo-Yokohama of Central Jersey, Whiting.

I thought this was a discussion regarding the reactivation of the CNJ. If you really feel the worthless need to tear into Tony and the CMSL, take it to another thread.

Valid observation. The economics of CMSL makes it very difficult to operate a regular schedule of passenger trains, made worse by the setbacks such as the track materials theft. The CNJ line is very much different in that regard, and I look forward to riding a passenger train on it in the foreseeable future. Constructive suggestions as to what the nature of feasible CNJ line passenger service might be would be much more appropriate, e.g., brainstorming on what the general public would patronize. The general public ridership is what makes or breaks a tourist operation.