Need help for location on NYC Buffalo Main

I've attached a snip from an NYC ETT. This is the section on where there were phones available.

I knew the WS yard and the NYC yard were adjacent and then merged, as it were, to form Frontier. I have heard of Forks but never knew exactly where it was.

If I'm reading the ETT correctly, there was a phone starting at Forks (433.0) in the watchmans cabin. Then in the 1.9 miles to East Buffalo, a pole at New City Car, at a cabin, then HC, VI, etc. I assume those weren't all right at 433.0.

I'm looking for where New City Car Co was. It seems fairly close to Forks.

Any ideas? Thanks.

Charles

I don't know if this will help or not but I'll chime in.

When I saw your post regarding Forks, it started ringing bells. I looked on Google maps and located the Forks Fire Station on Broadway on the east side of Union Rd. After getting oriented with the time table, I'm wondering if the spur that feeds or use to feed the large warehouse across the track is where you're looking. The map shows another spur about 1000 feet east or so. I've never seen any traffic into that place.

Hope this helps.

MP433 (Forks) currently is the set of partial crossovers where the Eastbound runner for Frontier meets the main, TT West of the Amtrak station. Also, note that the West Shore Connection shown in the ETT is what CSX now refers to as the "A" Industrial, not anything to do with Frontier Yard or its predecessors. It cut north from the Main just TT West of where the Gardenville Branch ran under and connected to both the Main and the WS Connector, and then met up with the West Shore near the airport South of Genesee.

The signal numbers on your older ETT provide a good indication of where they were, as during the time the NYC used 10ths of a mile plus track number, so for example, signal 43364, was at MP 433.6, Track 4. Cabin, HC, and VI would all appear to be in the vicinity of MP 435 (between 435.1 and 435.5).

Given the location clues in the ETT, an unmarked spur shown on the earliest CR track chart, and visual clues from Historic Aerials (50's topo maps, 60's aerial views) and Google Earth Historic view ('95 imagery) I'm guessing New City Car was the building shown here. It was demolished in the late '90s or early '00s, (by 2002 for sure) and the current office building was constructed in '05/'06.

Thanks for the documentation. Better understanding of Forks now. It says in the NYC ETT I snipped that the pole with the phone for New City is on the south side of the tracks. Does it make sense to cross all the mains to get to a pole to call them when they are on the north side?

I remember that building. Always looked at it from the Thruway or Broadway. Like most RR related buildings, I never liked that they tore it down.

just curious - what year is the ETT from?
There are a lot online for NYC at http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/ett/ ... es-nyc.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
JS

That's where it's from. 6/27/43.

pumpers wrote:just curious - what year is the ETT from?
There are a lot online for NYC at http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/ett/ ... es-nyc.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
JS

A couple of comments -

I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think ct's old-pic location is New City Car, for a couple of reasons. First - IIRC, the switch/track entrance for that facility was from the east, much closer to MP/CP-433, and the phone list shows the location as 43364, which would be the current Thruway crossing. Second, there was a car works between the NYC and DL&W, accessed by both RRs, SW of the current Thruway underpass about where Benlin Freight and Keystone Automotive are now that had a switch on NYC Trk 2, crossed Broadway at grade and ran SW to the works.

A quick search shows this was probably the original Union Car Company. UCC was later closed/folded into ACF, probably purchased by DLW and reopened as a subsidiary under a new name, perhaps New City Car. The Historic Aerials 1958 pic shows the Trk 2 switch and car works still in place, and I don't see a switch to the facility NE of the Thruway crossing. From what I remember, that NE facility was painted light green or gray and may have been a Gould plant.

"what CSX now refers to as the "A" Industrial" - Was designated that by Conrail from ?? until somewhere around 1995. Before that it was the A Runner and was under dispatcher control.

"set of partial crossovers" - ????? A partial crossover would seem to be a single turnout (or less), and as a 'crossover' would be worthless unless it was a 'complete crossover'. There are three right-hand crossovers and a right-hand turnout at CP-433. The Bestway switch (across from the firehouse) is not part of CP-433.

"the pole with the phone for New City is on the south side of the tracks. Does it make sense to cross all the mains to get to a pole to call them when they are on the north side?" - For the most part, phones were located on the side of the ROW the pole line was on, unless there was some sort of major installation on the other side, and the pole line through there is on the south side. And it's not unexpected to ask a trainman to walk more than 2 car lengths in the performance of his job, even if there are tracks in the way. Yes, some of them are prone to balk at the thought occasionally... Also, if New City Car was the Trk 2 switch at the Thruway crossing, it might be considered further confirmation.

Apparently, it's in here with Central States Equipment. Both were served off that switch over Broadway.

Charles

I'm not saying it's the absolute truth, just an educated guess based on the research information available at the time, it was based on the signal shown on the same line being the track 4 signal.

TrainDetainer wrote:"what CSX now refers to as the "A" Industrial" - Was designated that by Conrail from ?? until somewhere around 1995. Before that it was the A Runner and was under dispatcher control.

Under NYC and PC it was the West Shore Connection, CR for obvious reasons called it the Oakfield Secondary Conenction until 1983 when it changed to the "A" Running Track (Always shown with quotes, by the way). It is referred to as that all the way through the 1999 TC.

"set of partial crossovers" - ????? A partial crossover would seem to be a single turnout (or less), and as a 'crossover' would be worthless unless it was a 'complete crossover'. There are three right-hand crossovers and a right-hand turnout at CP-433. The Bestway switch (across from the firehouse) is not part of CP-433.

By partial I meant you can only go from 2 to 4 in the westbound direction or 4 to 2 in the eastbound direction (via 1 and 3), as opposed to CP 434 where you can get from 3 to 2 or 2 to 3 (via 1) in either direction. Sorry I'm not completely up on what this would be called, I'm basing it off road interchanges which refer to full or partial interchanges, depending on whether you can access all the roads from all directions or not.

nydepot wrote:Apparently, it's in here with Central States Equipment. Both were served off that switch over Broadway.

Charles

365px-Map-NY-0144-02.jpg

Maybe 20 some years ago, when I started exploring the RR's, I remember riding my bike through this area. I believe it was abandoned or at least not very much activity. Long before the new buildings. You could actually see this building from the thruway. Wish I had pictures.

At the time, I always wondered if the bison yard fed this facility as well. Too long ago to remember if rails were still in place.

That's correct. The ETT at the top of the thread is from WWII. That's when these business were around.

I was trying to find info on "New City Car" with google, and typing that in with "Buffalo" came up with the following "snippet" from a periodical or journal called "Baldwin Locomotives" in 1928, volume 7.
https://books.google.com/books?id=ZrAiA ... UQ6AEIWjAI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sorry, the book (journal) was not on line as far as I could find, and those little snippets are all the info I found. Seems like they made cars related to moving poultry, and perhaps equipment for cleaning those cars. It does say the company is in Forks was established in 1918.

JS

Here's a 1924 map of New City Car. Right where nydepot said it was in the post of the topo a few posts ago, just west of Ludwig Ave, south of the NYC and north of the DLW. There is a trolley ROW just north of the property. That spur going to the northeast is the one to the NYC. You can also see old (1958) photos of it on http://www.historicaerials.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; . The 1939 map of the site is the same, but labels it Central States Equipment - and still manufacturing and reparing poultry cars. Note the 1928 map has the tracks ending on the north side of the site at the trolley ROW, except for the spur to the NYC.
JS
EDIT - I fixed a missing 1/2 sentence at the end of the post

Thanks for the map and info pumpers. I appreciate it.

They used a little Whitcomb for power at the site.

Charles