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HSR makers China regrets

Discussion about railroad topics everywhere outside of Canada and the United States.

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HSR makers China regrets

  by kaitoku
 
Lots of starry-eyed news reports of Chinese HSR (justified in many cases- it is an impressive system), but the Financial Times, in typical British fashion, are not inhibited to point out the other side of the coin (quote taken from article):
But for the European, Japanese and North American companies that have provided much of the technology for the country’s programme, the visit put the spotlight on a worrying trend.

In what many international executives see as a warning for other industries, these companies have spent years “transferring”, or selling, technology to state-backed partners in exchange for market access – only to be rewarded with shrinking market share in China as a result of state policies that favour local industry.

Now these companies find their high-speed technology has been “digested” – defined by the government as a multistep process of buying foreign technology, innovating on that existing platform then selling it under a domestic brand – by former Chinese partners. Furthermore, the foreigners find themselves competing head-to-head for tenders all over the world with Chinese companies selling digested high-speed technology at discount prices, often with cheap state bank financing thrown in.
source (may be behind subscription firewall, you may have to access through a web search instead):
China: A future on track
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2b843e4c-c745 ... ab49a.html

Re: HSR makers China regrets

  by jamesinclair
 
A warning for other industries?

Huh? This has been SOP in China for decades. Computers, cars, now trains and airplanes. Nobody should be surprised.

Re: HSR makers China regrets

  by george matthews
 
jamesinclair wrote:A warning for other industries?

Huh? This has been SOP in China for decades. Computers, cars, now trains and airplanes. Nobody should be surprised.
The current issue of Rail magazine (fortnightly) has an article on Chinese trains for Britain. Several companies are considering buying Chinese built trains.

Re: HSR makers China regrets

  by Nasadowsk
 
jamesinclair wrote:A warning for other industries?

Huh? This has been SOP in China for decades. Computers, cars, now trains and airplanes. Nobody should be surprised.
No kidding. It's a long-known issue with doing business in China. IP means nothing to them, and they don't care. Your design WILL be stolen, and there's NOTHING you can do about it.

Re: HSR makers China regrets

  by GREENLION
 
China just celebrate the complete of the 1st set of it's newest High Speed train - CRH380BL -at CNR Tangshan factory on september 21, 2010, Basically CRH380B is still a siemens design, the market price of CRH380BL is about 392 million RMB per train, (58.2 million USD), as technics are part of the deal between CNR & Siemens, at least half of the money goes to Siemen's pocket, the same to CRH380C, Bombardier hold 50% of the sales revenue.

But it is different to CRH380A, which is expected to export to the US by CSR, It's mainly designed by Chinese (of course some of the technics are from previously CRH2C, actually the first CRH380A test train which tested at Zhengxi PDL during may, 2010 was laterly named as CRH2-150 , it's a CRH2 in CRH380A skin) and Kawasaki did not share the sales revenue.

Chinese MOR CRH trains order timetable
Code: Select all
Date         Factory                  Class     Type       Quantity Quantity   Amount
                                                            (Set)    (Car)
2004-10-10   Alstom & CNR Changchun  250km/h   CRH5A         60       480     620 m ERU
2004-10-12   Bombadier & BST         250km/h   CRH1A         20       160     350 m USD
2004-10-12   Kawasaki  & CSR Sifang  250km/h   CRH2A         60       480   9,300 m RMB
2005-05-31   Bombadier & BST         250km/h   CRH1A         20       160     350 m USD
Jun 2005     CSR Sifang              300km/h   CRH2C         60       480   8,200 m RMB
Nov 2005     Siemens & CNR Tangshan  350km/h   CRH3C         60       480  13,000 m RMB
2007-10-31   BST                     250km/h   CRH1B & 1E    20+20    640   1,000 m ERU
Nov 2007     CSR Sifang              250km/h   CRH2B         10       160   1,200 m RMB
Nov 2007     CSR Sifang              250km/h   CRH2E          6        96     900 m RMB
Dec 2008     CSR Sifang              250km/h   CRH2E         14       224   2,100 m RMB
Jun 2009     CNR Changchun           250km/h   CRH5A         30       240   4,800 m RMB
2009-03-16   CNR Tangshan            380km/h   CRH380BL      70     1,120  27,440 m RMB
2009-03-16   CNR Changchun           380km/h   CRH380BL      30       480  11,760 m RMB
2009-09-28   CSR Sifang              380km/h   CRH380A & AL  40+100 1,920  45,000 m RMB
2009-09-28   Bombadier & BST         380km/h   CRH380C & CL  20+60  1,120  27,400 m RMB
2009-09-28   CNR Changchun           380km/h   CRH380B & BL  40+40    960  23,500 m RMB
2009-09-28   CNR Tangshan            380km/h   CRH380B       20       160   3,920 m RMB
2010-07-16   BST                     250km/h   CRH1A         40       320   5,200 m RMB
2010-09-14   CSR Sifang              250km/h   CRH2A         20       160   3,400 m RMB
Total                                                       860     9,840
                                                            (1230 standard train sets)
Dollar Normalized for Unit price in most recently contract

250km/h, 8 cars per set (first generation CRH)
CRH1A : 19.3 million/set
CRH2A : 25.3 million/set
CRH5A : 23.8 million/set

250km/h, 16 cars per set (second generation CRH)
CRH1B+E : 32.6 million/set avg
CRH2B : 17.8 million/set
CRH2E : 22.3 million/set

300km/h, 8 cars per set (third generation CRH)
CRH2C : 20.2 million/set

350km/h, 8 cars per set (third generation CRH)
CRH3C : 32.2 million/set

380km/h, 8 cars per set (fourthg generation CRH)
CRH380A: 27.98 million/set
CRH380B: 29.1 million/set
CRH380C:29.2 million/set

380 km/h, 16 cars per train (fourth generation CRH)
CRH380AL: 55.96 million/set
CRH380BL: 58.2 million/set
CRH380CL: 58.4 million/set
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