hope springs eternal

Since Spring is here with and all its symbols and realities of rebirth, I thought I'd remark on the current hope for 3 lines coming back to life, from dead or nearly dead. In recent years this forum we have witnessed great hope and serious efforts which almost looked like reality for at least for 3 lines, all of which came to naught -- the DLW cutoff (well we might see a few miles to Andover), passenger service on the Freehold branch and restoring the missing leg of the wye to the northeast corridor line and passeneger serivce to Lakehurst (the MOM project died due to state and local politics), and also who can forget NS mainline freight coming to the back to the Boonton line (the posts were outright fraud).

Now these boards are hotly discussing 3 more , all with rumors and insider information that they swear is true of big investments and big traffic right around the corner...
-- Rebuilding the west end of the Erie Newark branch and daily ~15 car trains on the line to Innovation fuels (ex WAS terminal)
-- Rebuidling of the Southern division of the CNJ from Lakehurst to Pasadena or thereabouts for sand trains (a few months ago the insider info posted was that it was for sand for the TUNNEL, but now it seems maybe for something else...)
--- And if you look on the NY forum the past week, there is supposedly very true insider info that NS wants to take back the old Erie mainline to Bignhamton for big freight in a few months.

Who wants to take bets on which one of these 3 comes to reality first, or if all 3 go down in flames.

And what will be the 3 next big rumors of rebirth!

How do we set up a poll here?
JS

I'll put my bets on the Newark Branch. I'm not bidding for 15 car trains tho but at least a whole lot of activity.

Yea, Newark Branch revival is probably the most likely to happen out of the 3.

I do admire your optimism and positive attitude. I really do. For the past decade or so, we've been hearing a lot of rumors and stories, but not really any of them have come true... so for this to happen this year, we'd need some big changes... something we haven't had in a long time... So I guess we can hope and maybe it will happen, but if history repeats itself, we'll probably be close to the same place we were this year in 365 days.

SecaucusJunction wrote:I do admire your optimism and positive attitude. I really do. For the past decade or so, we've been hearing a lot of rumors and stories, but not really any of them have come true... so for this to happen this year, we'd need some big changes... something we haven't had in a long time... So I guess we can hope and maybe it will happen, but if history repeats itself, we'll probably be close to the same place we were this year in 365 days.

I wouldn't be so pessimistic - pessimism is self-fulfulling (and optimism often is too). In the last few years we have had double-tracking of the old LV east of Bound Brook, the Riverline light rail was built and is doing well, the Montclair connection was built (50? years after it was proposed), I think they are now raising the clearance on the Erie Bergen tunnel and on the National Docks Waldo tunnel for double-stacks, the bridge to Staten Island was brought back to life and sees lots of traffic, they actually started the Tunnel, and up north NS just made a huge investment in PanAm to fix up their main to reach to the Boston area, ...
JS

pumpers wrote: --- And if you look on the NY forum the past week, there is supposedly very true insider info that NS wants to take back the old Erie mainline to Bignhamton for big freight in a few months.

Highly highly doubtful. NS is trying to get rid of that desolate piece of RR that should have become a bike path years ago. The only reason NS is holding onto Campbell Hall is because of the Middletown trash and Jones Chemical in Warwick AND by keeping the Tier and leasing it out it prevents competition from scooping it up and sneaking into the NJ/NY market. The Tier is much slower and more winding than the Penn Route. AFAIK there are no more qualified crews from CX-Bingo and barely anyone left qualified up to Port. Another problem is freights running up the County/Tier are subject to the mercy of NJT dispatching which if it were their way there would be NO freight at all on their territory. I doubt anything will ever happen.

If anything I can see traffic from Bingo-Buffalo picking up making it an ease/west bridge route for the New England traffic.

pumpers wrote: the bridge to Staten Island was brought back to life and sees lots of traffic, they actually started the Tunnel, and up north NS just made a huge investment in PanAm to fix up their main to reach to the Boston area, ...
JS

Pumpers,

While most of your information is true and factual, I DO NOT believe that the Arthur Kill Bridge to Staten Island sees "lots of traffic"... Last I heard the intermodel traffic into the Island is down and the garbage container traffic only goes on existing trains..(Q301, Q706 ring a bell). I remember a press release or article stating back in 2005 or 2006 that the New York Container terminal was going to see at least 3 new trains in each direction from there...That never really seemed to materialize.

pumpers wrote: --- And if you look on the NY forum the past week, there is supposedly very true insider info that NS wants to take back the old Erie mainline to Bignhamton for big freight in a few months.
JS

I have two words for you. Not happening. NS does NOT want the Tier but doesnt want anyone else to have it either. Thats why they lease it to Metro North and the NYSW. The only way the Tier could ever be a viable route is if it was a railroads ONLY route into NYC. Since NS isnt about to sell it to anyone, what you see is what you get. From NJ to Port, the current amount of commuter traffic and from Port to Binghamton you get the NYSW's two to three trains each way a week. And thats all you will ever see. There is NO hope for the Tier, even the EL didnt want it. They preferred to run via the DL&W and put up with the Greenwood Lake branch than deal with the horrible engineering of the Tier.

Yikes! And they say I'm pessimistic!

The tier is out of the question unless CP some how manages to drug NS. NS has no reason to keep this route other than what was already mentioned. But hey you never know, right now I'm 15% happening, 85% not.

Lakehurst Sand Trains are about a 50-50 right now, if the parties involved were a little less suspicious I would be more optimistic.

The Newark Branch will see an up swing, not sure if the car amounts are exact time will tell.

Well, now that summer is almost over, let's go back and take score.

The Newark Branch did get its major upgrade -- let's see if the 200 or 300 cars per year promised by Innovative Fuels (I think that what it's called) develops.

About the Southern Tier (east of Binghamton to NJ), there is still hope, if NS propaganda is to be believed. See the following presentation (especially pages 22-23 about NY/NJ to Buffalo intermodal by late 2010 or 2011 ???)
http://www.gbnrtc.org/fileadmin/content ... tation.pdf
which NS made recently, discussed on the NY forum: http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 5&start=15 (see K4's post on Aug 31).

Bringing the CNJ to the sand pits south of Whiting back to life, which seemed alsmost imminent about a year or so ago according to the intensity of the posts, seems awful quiet now. If some of that sand were the right stuff/price for the Marcellus Shale business, looking at the NS presentation, then maybe things could change... JS

pumpers wrote:
Bringing the CNJ to the sand pits south of Whiting back to life, which seemed alsmost imminent about a year or so ago according to the intensity of the posts, seems awful quiet now. If some of that sand were the right stuff/price for the Marcellus Shale business, looking at the NS presentation, then maybe things could change... JS

I know from a very reliable internal source at the CMSL that there is a good chance those sand trains will be running from Woodmansie up to Lakehurst by the end of next year. Where the trains will go once they enter Browns or any of the other NJ yards remains to be seen! That is pretty much all the information I can delve into at the present.

blockline4180 wrote:

pumpers wrote:
Bringing the CNJ to the sand pits south of Whiting back to life, which seemed alsmost imminent about a year or so ago according to the intensity of the posts, seems awful quiet now. If some of that sand were the right stuff/price for the Marcellus Shale business, looking at the NS presentation, then maybe things could change... JS

I know from a very reliable internal source at the CMSL that there is a good chance those sand trains will be running from Woodmansie up to Lakehurst by the end of next year. Where the trains will go once they enter Browns or any of the other NJ yards remains to be seen! That is pretty much all the information I can delve into at the present.

For the moment, assuming that by the end of 2011 to run trains is accurate, that will make 7 years between when we first noticed the clearing of the brush from Woodmansie northwards to operation. That's a hell of a way to do an investment in something. It's not as if they did a little work each year. It has been spots and spurts of a little work at oddball times. And because of the delay, they end up redoing some of the work over (clearing). Not an efficient and cost effective way to spend money.

I would have to guess that the original reason for beginning the clearing in 2004 had changed one or more times over this period. I definitely would be interested to learn of what the situation and intended plans had been over these last 6 years. Just out of curiousity.