Hiding railfans and our job to turn you in

As engineerr Im on Crazy nips side, trains are minor targets no matter what they carry.

I don't quite understand the blather about the President wanting to control the populus. Whoever happens to occupy that office is under such a microscope they certainly couldn't control people even if they wanted. Ditch the political angle and look at reality.

We have people who want to terrorize us. That's a fact. Some of them are foreign - remember 9-11? Some are domestic - remember Oklahoma City? If someone had said, on 9-10-01, we'd better be careful or somebody may hijack planes and fly them into important buildings, you'd have thought they were nuts. In other words, just because it hasn't been done yet is no reason to dismiss the possibility.

Also, there have been so many assorted movies and TV programs about people putting bombs on trains, etc, that it's a no-brainer that some sicko is saying "hey, I could do that". Organized crime has used remotely-detonated explosives to eliminate rivals for decades - if somebody put something in a given railcar and pushed a button at the right (or wrong) time, there could be a catastrophe. Quite likely? maybe not. Very possible? Definitely!

The bottom line is that railfans have every right in the country to take photographs, watch trains, and so on, within the various laws about trespassing etc. When somebody is where they should not be, or when they are acting in a suspicious or unusual way, the safe and prudent thing is for the train crew to report it. As in many other aspects of our life, those who follow the law and use common sense won't have a problem. (Yes, I am aware we've had a few instances of rogue cops making up "laws" prohibiting photography - I'm talking 'under normal circumstances' here).

Aji-tater wrote:I don't quite understand the blather about the President wanting to control the populus. Whoever happens to occupy that office is under such a microscope they certainly couldn't control people even if they wanted. Ditch the political angle and look at reality.

We have people who want to terrorize us. That's a fact. Some of them are foreign - remember 9-11? Some are domestic - remember Oklahoma City? If someone had said, on 9-10-01, we'd better be careful or somebody may hijack planes and fly them into important buildings, you'd have thought they were nuts. In other words, just because it hasn't been done yet is no reason to dismiss the possibility.

Also, there have been so many assorted movies and TV programs about people putting bombs on trains, etc, that it's a no-brainer that some sicko is saying "hey, I could do that". Organized crime has used remotely-detonated explosives to eliminate rivals for decades - if somebody put something in a given railcar and pushed a button at the right (or wrong) time, there could be a catastrophe. Quite likely? maybe not. Very possible? Definitely!

The bottom line is that railfans have every right in the country to take photographs, watch trains, and so on, within the various laws about trespassing etc. When somebody is where they should not be, or when they are acting in a suspicious or unusual way, the safe and prudent thing is for the train crew to report it. As in many other aspects of our life, those who follow the law and use common sense won't have a problem. (Yes, I am aware we've had a few instances of rogue cops making up "laws" prohibiting photography - I'm talking 'under normal circumstances' here).

Thanks Mr. Aji-tater for an intelligent voice of reason here. As you said, because it hasn't been done yet is no reason to think it won't/can't be done. I can only imagine the results of a RPG fired into a tanker of vinyl chloride! In the majority of cases it isn't railfans causing problems, it's trespassers in general. Yes, by all means, please ditch the political angles!
There's an abundance of those on other railroad.net forums.

crazy_nip wrote:
you have got to be kidding me

this is wrong on so many levels

for starters, why dont you think for yourself

the president is trying to scare you so he can legitimize his agenda of fear to keep control of the populous

his ratings are heading down and he is really losing control

there is no reason to fear a couple railfans

when was the last time someone terrorized a train in a yard?

seriously, you must be either a greenhorn or completely detatched from reality...

people shouldnt be tresspassing, but you are making a fool of yourself if you think you are helping anyone by reporting railfans as terrorists

vigilance is a great term to spread fear of the unknown

vigilance + stupidity = the cops are too busy being playing terror-cop to do their real jobs (IE: fighting real crime)

Did you read my account of that day? they were a long way aways when i first saw them, mile and a half or more, if they wouldnt have ran then ducked down, i wouldnt have thought anything of it. We see anywhere from 60 to over 100 trains threw here over a 24 hour period, not some east coast line with 10 to 30 trains a day, this is heavy, cross country mainline traffic.

Like i said before, i welcome foamers to stand in front of the depot and watch trains blast off.

Guys like Crazy Nip can spew that BS about controlling the populous through fear, but guaranteed the next big incident we have on our soil he'll be the first one screaming "WHY WEREN'T WE WARNED?? WHAT IS OUR GOVERNMENT DOING TO PROTECT US???". Can't have it both ways.

--when was the last time someone terrorized a train in a yard? --

Don't know, but damn how easy would it be for someone with a little knowledge of the RR, a switch key and a programmed radio to set up a disaster? It's only a matter of time before these guys realize how vulnerable we are. Twice so far we've been kicking cars on our RCL switching lead, which extends off into the darkness of the Portland night, and had someone jump out and pull the pin on the cars way behind the pin puller. Transient? Kids having a goof? Probably, but if a drunken bum or some kids could cause mayhem by doing that, imagine what 3 or 4 trained guys with a plan could do.

DutchRailnut wrote:As engineerr Im on Crazy nips side, trains are minor targets no matter what they carry.

Does the incident in Madrid, Spain ring a bell??

The railfans like those mentioned above, the slim minority who like to mount the camera between the rails, hide, and have a lack of common sense really sadden me, because they're ruining it for the rest of us. Sadly, my generation in general has an extreme lack of intelligence, AND common sense. So I apologize for them being complete morons. I am proud to say that i do stay on public property, and don't really like the idea of Trespassing, because it may get me in a lot of trpouble, which i would like to avoid. Anyways, be safe out there, everybody.

Have people sabotaged trains for political reasons?
Sure. And long before Madrid.

Have people sabotaged trains for non-political reasons?
Sure. For about as long as there have been tracks and things to put on them.

Did the current Administration use the public's fear of terrorism as a political tool?
Sure. But so did FDR.

Should we all be checking our rosebushes for saboteurs?
Only if we want to drive ourselves nuts.

My code: Never make policy decisions while afraid, angry, or intoxicated.

Let's all be safe out there.
-Urban.

BigC, remember the incident on the North Jersey Coast Line about 2 months ago (we both work for the same railroad, btw) where a full passenger train hit a full, approx 100lb propane cylinder?

Lots more incidents of "terrorism" happen than most people are aware of. by "terrorism" i mean, not the "normal" sense of the word, but rather what people do in "fun", to make trains hit things, crush things, blow things up and tear things down that are put on or near the tracks. The other day, we had some of the geniouses of America put a few spikes down on the rail, point towards the our train. We hit those spikes at 80mph and the cab car rose about 3 inches and then dropped like a rock. It was scary.

UPRR is right, be smart when around the tracks, and 99 percent of the time, you won't get called in, but if it looks like you are doing something suspicious, and maybe not with the intent of a major terrorism act, but just "good innocent fun" that could be harmful for the crew, you will get reported.

As a side note, UPRR, thats a killer quad in your avitar - i have a 400ex myself, and Fox rules!!!! ahhahah

I think you guys have got to calm down about terrorism on train lines the US government is the only thing you should need to worry about. And as long as you're helping companies make their millions (that is what trains haul is expensive cargo for large corporations mostly) the trains should be all right.
And I don't know what media you guys listen to in the US but up here in Canada it's a pretty well know fact that the two towers did not topple because of the planes crashing into it because; that is not possible those towers were built out of metal they were two of the first buildings in the world too be built like that. Jet fuel does't burn hot enough to of melted those towers as was orriginatly said on the tv.
I think that 911 and all the other terrorist fear associated with it was created to provide suport for the machines of war. look at all the military excursions that have happened after 911 in the name of preventing terrorism it is just an excuse the US government is the largest force of terrorism in the world.
what other country or organisation has interfered with as that many countries as the us has. All of which interventions were in the name of preserving democracy or preventing terrorism or saving the population from a horrible dictatorship. All these pretexts seem a little to much alike to me especialy since the people who benefit from such intrventions* are usually the same people who opt for them in the government (i mean the people who sign lobbist's paychecks ect.). These same profiteers are a large portion of the railroad's customer base so as long as you keep haul their goods and no problems arise and it's business as usual I don't see you having any problems with terrorism.

*Such as corporation whose sweatshops were taken over by worker-revolutionaries or whose extraction of resources has been stop by a more popular government than they would like

I would be alot more concerned about theiving from railroad, cause the do haul expensive cargo alot of the time.

Jtgshu wrote:
what people do in "fun", to make trains hit things, crush things, blow things up and tear things down that are put on or near the tracks. The other day, we had some of the geniouses of America put a few spikes down on the rail, point towards the our train. We hit those spikes at 80mph and the cab car rose about 3 inches and then dropped like a rock. It was scary.

The worst i ever had, running over objects set on the track was 22 shells. Riding the point on a "traveling switch engine" where you shove up a branch beside a trailer park. Ran over about a hand full or two, that sucked big time, had the ear plugs shoved in hard because of the curves, so i couldnt hear if they were going off and or ricocheting off the wheels. I was a tad bit upset after that.

Ive hit spikes, but at slow speed, 20mph or less, at 80? ... i would be lit up. That would be scary.

Jtgshu wrote:

As a side note, UPRR, thats a killer quad in your avitar - i have a 400ex myself, and Fox rules!!!! ahhahah


SHIFT ... and Fox. I wear shift pants and jersey, Fox boots and helmet. Thought id be different with my avitar, me putting a UP pic up.... no, thought id put something up there i enjoy looking at. Riding is a good way to release some stress. I got the quad thats in my pic its awesome, i love riding and racing.

Some of you guys are mistaking "terrorism" in what is being discussed here. There are many documented cases of terrorism on the railroads over the course of history, well before and some instances after 9/11.

What the real railroaders here are talking about (or at least how I read it) is not reporting people for "terrorism" acts in teh post 9/11 sense of the word, but rather people doing anythign that could cause harm to the train or the crew member. Just "innoncent fun" buy putting things on the rail and watching them blow up, get crushed or shoot out might seem like fun, but could be very dangerous to the crew.

If a railfan is sneaking around, and hiding around and looking suspicious, the crew probably isn't thinking "Oh boy, here is one of Osama's guys - call the department of homeland security" but rather "did they put something on the rail? Whats that out there oh boy, it looks like a shopping cart/tree/branch/tire/spike/tieplate/baby carrage/bicycle/whatever.......here we go........BOOM Now, the hoses might rip apart, or other damage, meaning a crew member has to go out and work out there. Train crew members do get attacked and robbed adn ambushed when a train is "sabatoged" like that.

Let me just say, its not fun having to walk a train, where you are in an area where you wouldn't be caught dead otherwise...its scary

UPRR - sort of the same too, I have Shift gear, and a few Thor jerseys, Fox boots and gloves - I also have a streetbike - a Suzuki GSXR1000. there must be some great places to ride out your area of the country.....

But on the other hand, especially here in the Northeast, and in NJ, there have been a few people who were reported trackside by crews who were "people of interest" to the FBI. One in particular that pops into my mind was on the ACLine about a year and a half ago. A vigilant engineer saw a suspicious person by a bridge, notified authorities, and he was quickly arrested and found to have some explosive remmants on him.

UPRR Enginner,
The line I live on has 160+ plus trains a day but there surprisly aren't any problems with raifans.