Good old Geeps

What ever became of the GP series of locomotive from EMD? I know that freight lines have a problem with the B-B locomotives, but couldn't they still make new ones, for switching and commuter?

Chessie GM50 wrote:What ever became of the GP series of locomotive from EMD? I know that freight lines have a problem with the B-B locomotives, but couldn't they still make new ones, for switching and commuter?

Since no one replyed yet, i figured i will..

I come from Boston commuter rail service, Mass Bay Commuter Rail (MBCR). For those who dont know, the fleet is equiped with 2 models of locomotives; the F40PH-2C's which were rebuilt a few years back as with the F40PHM-2C which is an older locomotive still in operation but pending scrap (making a long story short). The other locomotives in the fleet are the rebuilt GP40-MC's which were purchaced from Canadian National arriving to Boston in 1997 (give or take a year). Before being handed down, they were originally GP40-2L(W)'s generaly being a freight locomotive. Being rebuilt into a GP40-MC they were updated with the (latest to date) technolodgy and computers which the commuter rail's locomotive requires. They ran all nice, nice untill the heat of summer and the cold of winter began shuting the equipment down. Today they are a consistant hassle and very, very, often shut down on the line.

So yes there are GP series models still floating around. I don't believe EMD has built them from the ground up in some years now (correct me if im wrong). The MBCR's GP models i believe are one of just two commuter rail companys that still have them, so they are a rare sight (especially for commuter rail service). But, they're not that reliable. Also I often see some CSX gp40's around the boston area aswell which i dont think are in too bad of shape. I guess general perpous locomotive should stay a general perpeous locomotive and not rebuilt into other service locomotives (Commuter Rail).

Answer your question?

A sort of perfect storm hit the GP,(4 axle locomotive market).Class 1 railroads abandoned many miles of track.These were usually branch lines with light worn out rail and infrastructure that could only be serviced by GPs.The ones that weren't abandoned were sold to short lines.many class 1 railroads merged that left more surplus trackage and locomotives as trains were rationallized.With heavy tonnage and heavy rail why not use heavy equiptment,available up to 6000 hp.This saves fuel and horse power hours.The older GPs are fuel guzzlers compared to the electronics and mechanical technology today.And a whole industry has been built to rebuild the many rebuildable GPs still around.

ridintherails wrote:

Chessie GM50 wrote:What ever became of the GP series of locomotive from EMD? I know that freight lines have a problem with the B-B locomotives, but couldn't they still make new ones, for switching and commuter?

Since no one replyed yet, i figured i will..

I come from Boston commuter rail service, Mass Bay Commuter Rail (MBCR). For those who dont know, the fleet is equiped with 2 models of locomotives; the F40PH-2C's which were rebuilt a few years back as with the F40PHM-2C which is an older locomotive still in operation but pending scrap (making a long story short). The other locomotives in the fleet are the rebuilt GP40-MC's which were purchaced from Canadian National arriving to Boston in 1997 (give or take a year). Before being handed down, they were originally GP40-2L(W)'s generaly being a freight locomotive. Being rebuilt into a GP40-MC they were updated with the (latest to date) technolodgy and computers which the commuter rail's locomotive requires. They ran all nice, nice untill the heat of summer and the cold of winter began shuting the equipment down. Today they are a consistant hassle and very, very, often shut down on the line.

So yes there are GP series models still floating around. I don't believe EMD has built them from the ground up in some years now (correct me if im wrong). The MBCR's GP models i believe are one of just two commuter rail companys that still have them, so they are a rare sight (especially for commuter rail service). But, they're not that reliable. Also I often see some CSX gp40's around the boston area aswell which i dont think are in too bad of shape. I guess general perpous locomotive should stay a general perpeous locomotive and not rebuilt into other service locomotives (Commuter Rail).

Answer your question?

NJ Transit has a whole fleet of GP40PH-2's, GP40FH-2's, GP40FH-2cats, and F40's. The geeps are the more reliable out of the all the diesels even with the brand spanking new PL42AC.

In regards to passenger geeps, there are a few other agencies besides MBTA and NJT Rail:

Florida TriRail has several GP49s that were overhauled for passenger service.

AMT in Montreal has ancient GP7s that they're running in passenger service (along with a power car for HEP).

Alaska Railroad has (I think) a few GP40-2s that they use in passenger service, although their latest and greatest passenger locos are SD70MACs with HEP.

Amtrak's Dash 8-32BWH locos are basically the GE equivalent of a passenger geep.

Oh and dont forget MARC in Maryland, CDOT has a few running around in Connecticut.

what about GO Transit? Aren't those still in a wat a geep?

Wow, I can't believe I forgot about MARC, and especially CDOT with their GP40s painted in New Haven livery!

The MBCR, we have AT LEAST 1 gp40 per day go to sleep on us. The problem mostly is the Head End Power (HEP) shuts down while out on the road. Of the 24 geeps in the fleet, not one is a reliable source of power. I know 2 of them have been sent out to AMP for top deck overhaul that wont even turn on. Sometimes doing only that can be an issue. They have been rebuilt a slick looking locomotive, but dont get much better then that. The others are pending to be shipped out as we speak.

MEC407 wrote:In regards to passenger geeps, there are a few other agencies besides MBTA and NJT Rail:

AMT in Montreal has ancient GP7s that they're running in passenger service (along with a power car for HEP).

AMT Montreal's Geeps are GP9's From CN's GR-17u and GR-17z (built 1959) series that were re-manufactured with 645C engines and dash-2 electronics in 1990 to GC-418a standards, so while the body and fame are "ancient", the guts are not. AFAIK they are more reliable than the Railworld ex Amtrack F40's they have leased

Mike

oleanfuzz wrote:AMT Montreal's Geeps are GP9's From CN's GR-17u and GR-17z (built 1959) series that were re-manufactured with 645C engines and dash-2 electronics in 1990 to GC-418a standards, so while the body and fame are "ancient", the guts are not.

I see. Thanks for the correction. I've only seen photos of them, and the photos I saw had captions that said they were GP7s. Always good to get a fact check.

Dont forget the BNSF orderd ''new old GP's''. GP38-2's rebuilt by NRE from GP40's and such. Shows that class 1's are still interested in ''new'' GP's.

What ever became of the GP series of locomotive from EMD? I know that freight lines have a problem with the B-B locomotives, but couldn't they still make new ones, for switching and commuter?

To answer the original question--there was a widespread shift in the 1970s to 6-axle power for most freight duties. Remember that in the 1950s, the Geeps were marketed as "general purpose" units while the SD's were "special duty" locomotives. On models like the SD7 through SD18, the horsepower-per-axle rating was so low that they really weren't suited to anything besides low-speed lugging.

However, with the advent of 3000-horsepower locomotives in the 1960s, wheelslip started to be a problem on 4-axle units. Conversely, higher horsepower meant that 6-axle units started to be well-suited to other freight duties. It was in EMD's 40-2 series that the switch to 6-axle power became evident. The GP40-2, although successful, was less popular than the GP40, while the moderately successful SD40 paved the way for the enormously successful SD40-2. With the subsequent advances in horsepower, new Geeps were relegated to high-speed, high-horsepower service, while the SD's became the new general-purpose freight units. The last model in EMD's standard GP line (not including the more recent MK designs) was the GP60, which stopped production in 1994.

As for switching duties, it was ironically the success of EMD's earlier units that killed the market for new medium-horsepower 4-axle units until very recently. In fact, to this day, the yards of some Class-1 railroads (CN and CP come to mind) are switched using rebuilds of 50 year-old GP9's. The GP38-2 was a model of reliability--not only are the majority still in service 20 to 35 years after being built, but other locomotives (GP38, GP40, GP50) are being rebuilt to GP38-2 specifications.

Dont forget the BNSF orderd ''new old GP's''. GP38-2's rebuilt by NRE from GP40's and such. Shows that class 1's are still interested in ''new'' GP's.

They're new--sort of--but they are built off the solid platform of the older Geeps, rather than being new from scratch--which builds on my points above.

The MBCR, we have AT LEAST 1 gp40 per day go to sleep on us. The problem mostly is the Head End Power (HEP) shuts down while out on the road. Of the 24 geeps in the fleet, not one is a reliable source of power. I know 2 of them have been sent out to AMP for top deck overhaul that wont even turn on. Sometimes doing only that can be an issue. They have been rebuilt a slick looking locomotive, but dont get much better then that. The others are pending to be shipped out as we speak.

The fact that they are Geeps is really irrelevant if it's the HEP that's causing the problems--the vast majority were built without it They may not be working well as commuter locomotives, but that doesn't surprise me given the fact that they are heavily modified versions of 30 year-old locomotives. In their prime on the CN, they were very reliable units and I know of at least one former engineer (who retired before they were too old) who liked them better than any other power. They are also now proving their worth on shortlines.

It has been well documented that the problems with the MBTA (a.k.a. MBCR) GP40MCs are due to the HEP systems and the microprocessor control systems that were installed in them. This is really much more of a reflection on the company that did the rebuilding, rather than a reflection on EMD/GMD or on Geeps in general.

hi,i think that the 4 axle market is now dominated by the second-hand market and rebuilds simular to the de-turbocharging of the gp50's performed by the NS nee conrail juniata shops which come out as gp38-3's, as i think that the EMD/Boise mk series is all but dead. as far as commuter railroads are concerned im not sure perhaps the so called "NEW" mp36 and f40ph mutations are now the dominant sales leaders. dash7

The last model in EMD's standard GP line (not including the more recent MK designs) was the GP60, which stopped production in 1994.

Who received the last built GP60?