Electric Locomotive use and performance questions

1. Were the electric locomotives ever used in commuter service, or were they kept strictly for long-distance trains with limited stops, and MU's held down the commuter jobs?

2. If the locos were used in local commuter service, how did they perform vs. the MU's?

Yes, the electric locomotives were used in commuter service on both the Hudson and Harlem lines. MU's operated only to Croton North Station on the Hudson and to North White Plains on the Harlem. Standard equipment was utilized on the Poughkeepsie service on the Hudson and on the Brewster and Chatham services on the Harlem. Power was changed at Harmon and NWP. This practice began in the steam era and continued until the FL-9's were used on the H&H after the PC merger.

You may find some vintage photographs showing MU's at Peekskill on the Hudson line, but they were towed through the non-3rd rail territory.

thanks - does anyone know how they performed vs. the MU's?

The locomotive-hauled trains were not assigned to all-stops locals. They typically were the rush expresses which made limited station stops at major stations.

Performance standards were quite different from MU's since you had a single engine handling as many as 12 to 14 cars.

The differeing locomotive characteristics were best shown in the 1970's when on the NH side, it took 3 FL-9's to equal the performance of a Jet on #1364 and #1366 which were all stops Stamford to NH.

As a minor clarification, the Eastbound Harlem Division motive power change was made at North White Plains, but Westbound trains changed power at Holland Avenue.

The electric locomotives had great acceleration, of course not as good as an MU but much better than the FL-9's and today's Genesis locos.

Check out "When the Steam Railroads Electrified" by Middleton. You'll find shots of (some combo of) P- S- and T-motors working commuter trains.

Caught a cab ride in a P-motor from Harmon to Grand Central (stopping, of course, at 125th Street). Ran at track speed (or higher), rode like a Pullman heavyweight.

A couple of comments about the P-motors:

When one partially derailed on the Park Ave. Viaduct, the then Master Mechanic W. E. Whitney decided to use his brand-new hydraulic jack system (Hoesch??) to rerail it. The P-motor was so heavy and the steel deck so worn that it started to deform the deck!

On a different occasion, we had a slew of equipment to move DH from the Lower Level to HM Shops on the night DHE train, about 30 cars altogether. Original idea was to make 2 pulls from the Lower Level to Tower U, backing the 1st pull onto the Upper Level lead, double up and go to HM. The engineer (John Potthast or Gerry Smith) said that the P-motor would make the whole pull easily. When assembled, the P-motor was on the hill to Tower U and it simply walked that train right out!

They were originally equipped for MU operation at CUT, but that feature was eliminated before they left Cleveland. AFAIK, a full tonnage train was never assembled either in Cleveland or New York.

A couple of observations here. I never operated the "P" motors but I did ride them up to Harmon a few times. They did not
ride nearly as well as the GG-1's or the NHRR motors of the same wheel arrangement did. At one point the Penn Central
put a speed restriction on them but I can't recall just what it was and at least right now I do not have the time to do the
research to find out.
DC motors were more affected by voltage conditions than AC motors were and at least in the case of the NHRR motors we
had various situations on the Central with DC of running wide open and barely making track speed because of insufficient
voltage in the rail. This was most noticable in the PM rush when we had some pretty heavy trains that still had motors.
Today's operation is much better with more and higher capacity substations and heavier third rail but the present MU
equipment uses much more juice than the MU equipment and electric motors of the past did.
We also had AC problems in the Penn Central days but this was not so much the AC system itself as it was the condition of
the AC system both in the wires but even more so the powerhouse at Cos Cob which was literally falling apart from neglect
and overuse.
We went through a period of power restrictions in both rush hours on a daily basis when the power department was begging
us to ease off and the transportation superintendent was begging us and indeed even ordering us to disregard them. It was
not a good period at least on the former New Haven.
Noel Weaver

Noel,

Sounds like this was partly in the days when the M-2's were being introduced and they drew so much more from the line.

IIRC, Larry Forbes was the NH Line Transp. Supt. at that time, ill Sorrentino was TM at NH, Al Olsen at Stamford, and Bill quick and rich callahan were the RFE's following Danny Gallagher's retirement.

I remember well and fondly a time in the 60s when as a college student I was invited to ride a head end from GCT to North White. Fortunately it was a P motor. Two reactions: 1. as an earlier post stated it rode like a heavyweight Pullman. 2. Most of us who remember them recall hown long the front decks were out over the pilot trucks. After departing 125th St. we rolled into the curve to the right that leads to the Harlem River bridge. That pilot deck visibly turns into the curve a noticeable interval before the carbody does. When one is not accustomed to the feel of the cab, you are for a second or so certain you're in deep trouble!

Many thanks to the Harlem crew --- now all deceased I'm sure --- who provided me this opportunity.

shlustig wrote:Noel,

Sounds like this was partly in the days when the M-2's were being introduced and they drew so much more from the line.

IIRC, Larry Forbes was the NH Line Transp. Supt. at that time, ill Sorrentino was TM at NH, Al Olsen at Stamford, and Bill quick and rich callahan were the RFE's following Danny Gallagher's retirement.

All names that I remember very well.
Noel Weaver

Was lucky enough to catch a cab ride in an FL-9 in the mid 1970s from Harmon-GCT and return with a relative of my then wife-to-be. Great experience but the ride was like being in a truck with no shocks. Bounced all the way down and back. Later I did the same in an MU between the same points with a friendly engineer. Outstanding.