• Dover & Delaware River RR

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New Jersey
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New Jersey

Moderator: David

  by SemperFidelis
 
I do freight rates for work now and again and, before surcharge, rail carriers seem to get around 2.50 per mile on the longer hauls.
  by Bracdude181
 
Hmm… Well DDRR is a shortline, so for them is Phillipsburg to Dover considered a longer haul?

Also, this train was an extra service.

Only other charge I know of for this railroad is the fee to go down NJT, which I believe is 50 cents per mile, per loaded freight car…
  by SemperFidelis
 
Shorter hauls generally equal higher cost per mile. Never got a rate for a haul from Phillipsburg except back in NS days for cement to Kenvil area. The price was ridiculous and there was a weight limitation so we never shipped by rail.
  by Bracdude181
 
SemperFidelis wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 12:01 pm Shorter hauls generally equal higher cost per mile. Never got a rate for a haul from Phillipsburg except back in NS days for cement to Kenvil area. The price was ridiculous and there was a weight limitation so we never shipped by rail.
I do not know what DDRR charges, but I have a question for you.

Chesapeake and Delaware, parent company of the DDRR, advertise themselves as a “handling line partner” for Norfolk Southern. I’ve asked around as to what that means, and the only answer I was given is that being one of these so called “partners” means that when you ship with them, you pay NS carload rates but the shortline is who actually serves you. You also pay the shortlines tariffs.

Is this actually what goes on?
  by SemperFidelis
 
normally the shortline rate is built right into the rate quote you get. If you are used to shipping by truck you will HATE waiting sometimes weeks for a rate quote from a Class 1. The shortlines are generally excellent folk though.

I know two sand and stone shippers and a cement receiver who can't use the line because of the weight restriction of 263k in places. Just dropped the rr a line asking if there was any hope of getting that lifted.
  by Bracdude181
 
SemperFidelis wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 12:24 pm normally the shortline rate is built right into the rate quote you get. If you are used to shipping by truck you will HATE waiting sometimes weeks for a rate quote from a Class 1. The shortlines are generally excellent folk though.

I know two sand and stone shippers and a cement receiver who can't use the line because of the weight restriction of 263k in places. Just dropped the rr a line asking if there was any hope of getting that lifted.
With the way NJT is I wouldn’t put much hope in getting it lifted sadly. Woodhaven on the Southern Secondary complains about the weight issue too. Capped at 263k because of NJT. If it was 286 they’d be able to put around 23,000 pounds more lumber in their train cars.

For a while DDRR wanted an extra $1000 for cars over 263k and exceeding Plate C clearance. I’ve been told they no longer charge that but the tariff for it is still on their website…
  by SemperFidelis
 
Yeah, a trucking company will always beat rail for shorter hauls, especially when you can't max out the railcars. The last rate I got, again back in NS days, was about $5/ton more expensive than trucking.
  by ccutler
 
Railroads have gotten smarter about sharing revenues with short line partners. My understanding is that the short line gets a meaningful percentage of the revenue from the railcar delivered. I think it is 25% to 33% but I'm not sure. Even if the short line is only 5 miles long, the division makes sense because the short line handles the tedious business of shunting around and spotting railcars at local customers. They also help with marketing, provide a high level of service, and at a lower cost than the Class Is can offer. That's why the Southern Secondary and Freehold line will do better with D&D over Conrail operations.

Sorry to hear that some stone/sand shippers won't ship because of the 263k limit. I suppose they know 286k cars' volumes can be readily modified to hold only 263k worth of freight? Or better yet, only fill 100 tons of load instead of 111 tons?
  by SemperFidelis
 
I'm not sure of the exact revenue split, but I think it might be a predetermined flat dollar amount, rather than a percentage. I'm just not familiar enough with shortline balance sheets to be able to state anything definitively. I'll ask someone when I have an appointment with them and let you know if it's flat or percentage based.

Everyone I have worked with just aren't really all that concerned with why your quote is higher, they just care that it is. When I tried to ship Portland and sand, the rate was astronomically high, even before we factored in the weight limitation, so we never made the moves by rail.

I've never really delved into just how the railroads put together their rates, I just know that the wait time is frustratingly long when I can get basically an instant quote from any trucking company.
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