DETAILS, PLEASE, ON TRAIN #185: AUGUST 7,1953

Noel Weaver has confirmed, having actually seen it run on the Mohawk Division, that the last NYC steam locomotive to run east of Buffalo was Niagara #6020, hauling Train #185 on August 7, 1953. This fact has
been widely reported, including a nice story in the September, 1953
issue of "NYC HEADLIGHT". However, I cannot find "Train #185" in
any of my old NYC timetables, going back as far as January, 1942.
Was this an M&E train, or a passenger train? Further details would be
most appreciated. Also, when did the last NYC steam operate WEST
of Buffalo, to Collinwood or Linndale, Ohio? Same train on the same
date?

Train #185 shows in the employee timetables as a Milk Train from W. 72nd St. to Utica, passengers not carried.

Departed the West Side about 8:30AM, operated via Rensselaer Yard, and terminated at Utica.

I am told that the train sometimes ran to Syracuse as the opposite side Train #184 originated from Syracuse.

Hope this helps.

If Train #185 (pulled by Niagara #6020) was a milk train terminating
at Utica (or maybe Syracuse), how did the NYC get #6020 west from
there as the last NYC steam to operate east of Buffalo?

What and when would have been the last steam powered trains to operate west of Buffalo over the Canada Division mainline to and from Detroit and beyond? Also what locomotives would have been used on those trains? I have been told by long time MCRR men that Niagaras were rarely used there due to clearance problems. Can anyone here elaborate further on that issue?

latonyco wrote:What and when would have been the last steam powered trains to operate west of Buffalo over the Canada Division mainline to and from Detroit and beyond? Also what locomotives would have been used on those trains? I have been told by long time MCRR men that Niagaras were rarely used there due to clearance problems. Can anyone here elaborate further on that issue?

I do not think the CASO was considered as "east of Cleveland" and it
seems to me that I read somewhere that steam lasted a little bit longer on
this division than on the mainline east of Cleveland. This does not mean
that CASO steam got into Buffalo, my guess is that a little steam survived
in Canada into 1954.
Noel Weaver

Niagara 6020 probably went West dead-in-tow. Saw a whole bunch going West thru Utica on the West Shore. Didn't identify them as I was only 10 years old!

Train #185 shows in the employee timetables as a Milk Train from W. 72nd St. to Utica

As a resident of the west side of Manhattan (we live, literally, on top of the WSFL, and on the site of 60th St. yard), I must say it is an utterly amazing realization that milk was shipped out of Manhattan as late as 1953. I would have guessed that industry had died out at least a century earlier.

All kidding aside --- I trust the foregoing will be taken in good fun --- I assume a westbound milk train would have been all returning empties, yes?

Also, since the train picked up steam in Harmon, I would guess it had come out of the city behind R class electrics. Electric operation on the WSFL must have been near the end then, I would think.

DonPevsner wrote:If Train #185 (pulled by Niagara #6020) was a milk train terminating
at Utica (or maybe Syracuse), how did the NYC get #6020 west from
there as the last NYC steam to operate east of Buffalo?

It wouldnt have had to get west of Utica or Syracuse to be operating east of Buffalo!

It could have terminated at Utica or Syracuse, and still have been the "last NYC steam locomotive to run east of Buffalo."
It wouldnt have to actually go to Buffalo at all.
perhaps "East of Buffalo" was stated because Buffalo was a division point?
and not because the loco actually ran to Buffalo..

Scot

6020 Was the last engine out of Harmon, not necessarily the last engine
east of Buffalo or Cleveland or anywhere else. If the train it was running
was indeed terminated at Utica or Syracuse, the engine may have hauled
another train west or it may have been operated light.
Some of the Niagaras hung on for a while after the Central dieselized east
of Cleveland and ran trains on lines west, the Big Four or the Michigan
Central.
On most railroads, the steam engines that were the best suited for the
remaining available work, had the least amount of use since last major
visit to the shop and were in the best overall shape were usually the last
ones to be retired.
Noel Weaver