• Dash 7 questions

  • Discussion of the operations of CSX Transportation, from 1980 to the present. Official site can be found here: CSXT.COM.
Discussion of the operations of CSX Transportation, from 1980 to the present. Official site can be found here: CSXT.COM.

Moderator: MBTA F40PH-2C 1050

  by NsNscalerailfaN
All of NS's ex-CR C30-7A and C32-8 were retired in November 2000, most of the C30-7A's being sent to Estonia and only one C32-8 surviving the torch, that being sent to a quarry in Georgia. All of NS's SOU B23-7's were retired sometime around 2000, maybe a few lasting a bit longer and the CR B23-7's were all gone by 2003. The SOU B36-7 and the CR B36-7 didnt last long either they are either gone or stored. NS's C30-7's were almost all gone by 2000 and the C36-7's made it into 2003. No Dash 7's are left on Norfolk Southern.

  by charlie6017
This according to www.bullsheet.com :

CSX has 8 from Conrail via the merger:

7116 (x-CR/6622)
7117 (x-CR/6626)
7120 (x-CR/6630)
7121 (x-CR/6633)
7122 (x-CR/6634)
7123 (x-CR/6635)
7124 (x-CR/6638)
7125 (x-CR/6640)

And from NS:

7135 (x-NS/8488) CR
7136 (x-NS/8489) CR
7137 (x-NS/8490) CR

  by roadster
I have seen a CSX/CR C-32-8 pass through Rochester NY within the past couple of months was going east leading a misc. frieght. It's been my experience that the -7's were good down and dirty heavy haulers. What the problem seems to be is the GE's utilize a 4 stroke engine vs the EMDs 2 stroke. Alot more parts to wearout and higher maintainance costs which accompany the 4 stroke engine. The new generation of GE's and the new EMD sd70ACE all use a 4 stroke engine, new composite material and technology has provided a much more reliable and durable engine. Also a 4 stroke engine is also cleaner the the 2 stroke and with the new environmental requirements soon to be inplace the 2 stroke EMD's may be heading the way of the -7's in the not to distant future.

  by ATK
Alot more parts to wearout and higher maintainance costs which accompany the 4 stroke engine.
Nonsense. If this were true, all Alcos would be dead and long gone. The life cycle of a locomotive is directly proportional to how well its maintained -- has nothing to do with 2 cycle versus 4 cycle. BTW, EMD SD70ACE uses a 710 engine (2 cycle).

  by roadster
Sorry to disagree but just check with the shop people and they'll tell you.
What Alco's are still hanging on are doing so on shortlines, due to their lower value and affordability, compared to used EMD's and GE's(although older GE's are now the best buy as far as cheap affordable power goes) for shortlines whose limited use is alot less wear and tear than what the class one's demand. Think of all those valves, springs, cams, connectors, etc. which are not present on a 2 cycle engine. Why do you think the class ones, including CP which was one of the last class ones to retire the Alcos, did so? Parts are still available because the Alco engines are utilized in marine uses. It's simply a matter of cost effectiveness. Next time you watch a -7 rollby belching all kinds of smoke and oil, explain to me how their just as reliable as the newer 4 cycles and 2 cycles.
Last edited by roadster on Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

  by roadster
My appologizies, the SD70ACe is utilizing the 2 cycle 710. I misread a report that they were placing the new H-Engine in the SD70ACe. EMD has developed the H-Engine, the 4 cycle GM16V265 which is currently testing and so far has shown greater reliability and durability than current EMD 2 cycles and produces more HP. The engine can also fit current EMD models which could mean it may replace the 710 as time and enviro. regs get tougher.

  by QuietGuy
"Also a 4 stroke engine is also cleaner the the 2 stroke and with the new environmental requirements soon to be inplace the 2 stroke EMD's may be heading the way of the -7's in the not to distant future."

This comment doesn't seem to match the real world. The 710 two-stroke easily passed the EPA emission requirements and the SD70ACe's are certified Tier 2 locomotives. The 710 engine fuel efficiency is as good as GE's. I heard a rumor that GE put a fuel efficiency $$$ guarantee in their locomotive sales contract with CSX. Then CSX got some EMD locomotives to check this at an independent laboratory. The story is GE didn't meet the goals and had to make up the difference.

There are many factors that make a locomotive efficient, including the accessories and traction controls. There is nothing that makes a 4-stroke automatically cleaner than a 2-stroke. The most efficient power output point of any internal combustion engine takes place with very high NOx emissions - the nitrogen is burned like the fuel to make more heat available for power. To reduce NOx requres shorter combustion times and lower temperatures which makes fuel efficiency decrease. Another way to reduce NOx is to return exhaust gas with some NOx back into the combustion chamber. The two-stroke has that built in. IC engines will have problems meeting future emission standards, whether 2 or 4 stroke, Diesel or Otto cycle. But there are several techniques, like selective catalytic reduction, that will keep these engines going until new technologies emerge. With all the work GM is doing with Fuel Cells, I wouldn't be suprized if they build a fuel cell, hydrogen powered locomotive for test. It would probably cost 120 megabucks to build and need hydrogen fueling stations that cost another 10 megabucks apiece, so don't figure on seeing it for some time until the price of oil gets up pretty high!!

  by NsNscalerailfaN
Roadster....You probably saw a VERY simular looking engine- a C39-8....

CSX has 24 of the 25 Conrail C36-7 (only 1 was retired since the merger so far!).....Several were derated from 3600 or 3750 (C36-7) to 3000 horsepower (C30-7)....No original Conrail C30-7's or C30-7A's are left on CSX or NS.


  by roadster
Take a close look of my post. I am refering to the older EMD's such as the SD40 series, GP 40's, GP 38's, SD 50's, SD60's which and I'm sure you'll correct me if I am wrong and I'll appologize now if I am incorrect, These locos utilize the'60/70s tech. 645, albet. modified through the 80's. The 710 and newer 4 cycle engines are more powerful, efficient, and cleaner. EMD's own report, from which I drew my conculsion states the H-Engine (4-cycle) will mount in current EMD production models. Which tells me they are offering the H-engine as an option and possible future replacement. Remember the tier II standards are not the final point but another step to further restrictive emission controls and EMD is preparing. Now as far as 2 cycle vs 4 cycle. The 2 cycle has a combined ignition/exhaust cycle which causes a fair amount of unburned raw fuel to be exhausted, hence higher emissions, where as the 4 cycles have separate ignition and exhaust cycles where more fuel is consumed during the ignition phase before the exhaust valves open, allowing less raw fuel to escape. Basic engineering, ask any mechanic or engineer (the kind with the computer, not in the loco cab.)
Now if I remember one of the early questions on this tract originally
asked why the GE -7's were swiftly disappearing and the older EMD's were still soldering on. I was trying to answer that persons inquiry and I stand by my original explantion. I did not intend to get into a lengthy discussion about wether EMD's 710's are any better or worse then the latest GE offerings, or that EMD's H-engine "is" replacing the 710. If that was interpreted I am sorry, I was simply relaying info. which I have read and interpreted from Trade magazines, not "rumors I heard". This discussion belongs up in the builders forums.
I am sure it was a C-32-8, they had the very distictive rounded roof and large Dynamic fan box (hump)right behind the cabs. I thought the c-39-8 were built with the squared off cab foof lines. If I see it again, I'll try to get the cab number. I also saw -7 CSX axle in a consist at frountier engine house. I only caught the 1st two engine numbers of 70**. was it a c-36-7?

  by Urban D Kaye
Time seems to be running out on these units.
A lonely CSX C30-7 runs light across the Columbia Bridge...must have been one of the SCL/LN units that avoided mountain service.

[Well there was a link here but it's gone...what happened?]
Last edited by Urban D Kaye on Mon Aug 30, 2004 5:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

  by roadster
There's still a few B36-7's floating around. Mostly being used for local service as 4 xl units are getting harder to come by. CSXT 5855 was in Dewitt NY as of 8/29/04. I believe it's an x-L&N or SBD unit. Kinda sad actually, they were meant to be sailing along on the front of van trains at speed, not trudging around branchlines and yards.

  by Urban D Kaye
Thanks roadster for the help on the ID...
glad you saw the pic before it vanished.

  by roadster
I had the misfortune to be assigned to Q15909 out of Syracuse/Dewitt NY yard, with the CSX 7128 as the leader. A former CR/NS C-30-7. Very hard rough ride. These things are not well like by crews. Small doors, nearly straight up steps.