• CSX Frontier Yard empty

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.

Moderator: Otto Vondrak

  by SST
 
Last Saturday night I stopped at Old Broadway for some evening train spotting. I came from Harlem Rd and headed west along the yard. I didn't notice anything at first but then I start seeing "things" in the yard that I've never seen before. All kinds of buildings and structures. For a few momens, I lost my perspective on where I was. Never saw any of this stuff. At first I thought it was due to driving my pick up. My Focus sits pretty low and I don't see much over the tracks. But the truck sits pretty high compared to the Focus so I thought that's what caused the change in view.

I stopped at the Pizza Express across the street from Old Broadway near the signal and as I'm waiting for my slices, I look across the street. Even from that perspective, I had no clue what all the stuff was. After getting my pizza, I drive over to Old Broadway and get into position. I get out my binoculars. As I'm scanning the yard, its becoming clear why I'm seeing all the stuff. There are no rail cars in the yard.

I am starting to realize that I can look clear across the yard without obstruction. I can see the TOPS grocery store and its logo that's sitting on the other side of Harlem Rd. I guess the stuff I was looking at were the repair shops? A few hundred feet west of the buildings was a lot of "plumbing" with two green lights above it. Then a couple of hundred feet west of that was the fuel dock. Two CP locomotives were parked there. They weren't running. No lights at all.

One train came in and stopped at Old Broadway for a crew change and some maintenance work. They put the blue light [stop] sign out in front of it. While that train was being tinkered with, another train must have come in. Then they broke it in half. It must have been a very long consist as half the train stretched almost the entire yard. Once they split that train, the view of the entire yard was blocked.

Amtrak came through also while they repaired the train. Never new he was coming. He just popped into view going full tilt.

Eventually the crew change train was repaired and headed west bound. A very long tank train with a box car on the end. I think I saw stenciling that said Buffer.

An interesting evening for sure.

Is train traffic dropping off or is this just a random occurrence?
  by lakeshoredave
 
Yes CSX's traffic is down because they have combined a lot of the manifest freights. Oil and ethanol traffic is down as well. Most Class 1's are trying to combine things or scale back right now.
  by Matt Langworthy
 
CSX is running longer trains now. I've heard the dispatchers (via scanner) advising train crews about 7000 to 13,000 foot trains. I'm guessing a longer train can really clean out a yard, or bypass it altogether.
  by tree68
 
If they block them elsewhere, all they have to do is drop the block where it goes - no more re-sorting in places like Frontier.

Probably a larger scale version of what's been going on in Watertown for years - northbounds drop cars for the local, and southbounds pick up cars headed out. Those may get sorted at Dewitt, or may simply be added to a train headed for Selkirk as is.
  by sd80mac
 
I have seen empty Frontier Yard once a while, especially on Sunday when traffic get cooled off.

But the replies above are correct... traffic is way down now...
  by ScotCP356
 
You all are correct on Oil & Ethanol traffic wise. But for general freight wise, CSX had abolished 6 mix freights, push 1 back west, 1 was changed (symbol), and grand total of 10 general freights remain on the CSX Rochester Sub, but not all are running though. And believe it or not, all of this started last spring around May or June of 2015.

Here were the trains that were abolished:

Q626 (Buffalo - Selkirk)
Q627 (Selkirk - Buffalo)
Q372 (East St. Louis, IL - Selkirk) (UP train)
Q377 (Selkirk - Indy)
Q366 (Cincinnati - Selkirk)
Q385 (Selkirk - Russell KY)

The one train that was pushed back:

Q380 (Chicago - Willard), it was (Chicago - Selkirk) or for those who remember 2005-2010 the train that had BNSF power everyday.

The train that was changed (symbol wise):

Q364 turn into Q260

The trains that remain are:
Q260 (Indy - Selkirk) (Running on 28 HR schedule)
Q263 (Selkirk - Indy)
Q351 (Selkirk - Willard) (night train through Rochester)
Q381 (Syracuse - Willard) (Running on 28 HR schedule)
Q382 (Willard - Selkirk) (Running on 28 HR Schedule)
Q384 (Willard - Selkirk) (Running on 28 HR Schedule)
Q386 (Chicago - Selkirk)
Q393 (Selkirk - Chicago) (night train through Rochester)
Q640 (Cumberland - Selkirk)
Q641 (Selkirk - Cumberland)

Now most of these trains are as stated 1 1/2 to 2 miles long and these trains do work in rail yards such as Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse & Utica. But if your talking about intermodal trains... well they supposed to go up to 10,000 to 13,000 feet in length starting like last year. Q112, Q158 & Q004 are usually the biggest on the line as they are around 12,000 to 13,500 ft. in length. This is CSX idea of basically size things down with traffic wise but making them longer. Basically, CSX doesn't want to run so many trains when you can size things down to a few trains and it may stay like this for quite a while. I believe for CSX to increase traffic, the economy has to improve rapidly down the road. But until then, this is what we have to deal with.

-Scott
  by sd80mac
 
ScotCP356 wrote: CSX had abolished 6 mix freights, push 1 back west, 1 was changed (symbol), and grand total of 10 general freights remain on the CSX Rochester Sub, but not all are running though. And believe it or not, all of this started last spring around May or June of 2015.
On top of this, they reduced the train from 7 days to 6 days, departure every 27 hours.
Q380 (Chicago - Willard), it was (Chicago - Selkirk) or for those who remember 2005-2010 the train that had BNSF power everyday.
-Scott
Actually, they ran Q380 since Day One, replacing ELBU if I remember right. Couple years ago, they replaced it with Q382 from Willard. Q380 terminated at Willard. But now it looks like they changed back to full route for Q380 but less BNSF powers I believe.
  by Flat-Wheeler
 
I don't see how you increase operating efficency by reducing number of trains. Without running sophisticated computer models, to me it is irrelevant that you have less train crews to pay, and less fuel is used. You lose all the gains from those when you tie up the sidings and yards with extra long trains that outlaw all over, because of the slower pace and velocity. The fuel this saves can't be that big of a deal, because they're now using more horsepower to get through the hills and curves with such a longer train. But I do agree you might as well combine 2 freight trains that are consistently 40 cars long or so.
  by GulfRail
 
Is the hump still active at Frontier, or has Frontier been converted to a flat yard?
  by SST
 
Hasn't been used in a long time.
  by Flat-Wheeler
 
That's not good. Use it or lose it. :(
  by Engineer Spike
 
I was just trading a thread on the Boston and Maine Yahoo eGroup. Apparently they commissioned MIT to study train size efficiency, sometime in the 1970s. The study found that longer trains are not as efficient as shorter ones. The longer trains take much longer to be doubled up in the yards. On the road, it takes longer to slow down for slower speeds. Now the long train has to drag through it, which takes longer. Accelerating back to the higher speed takes longer too. If something goes wrong, it takes the conductor longer to potentially get to the problem.

Another factor is connections. With fewer connections, it is more likely that it will not be made. This makes for less velocity, and more dwell times.

All of these issues above make it cheaper to run short fast trains, in spite of more power requirements, and crew starts. Remember that crews were more expensive then, since full crew laws existed then. Even if there weren't full crews, they still had one or more brakemen.
  by rottentie
 
frontier yard update Thursday 8/17 9:10 pm

only cars in yard between union road and north ogden where autoracks and some conrail boxcars


ns had a a manafest train near ogden and william facing east
  by BR&P
 
Give it 5 years and it will be a housing development and self-storage units. It sure ain't coming back. :(
  by sd80mac
 
bison yard's quite the opposite!! it was heart aching to see empty Bison everytime I went over it in 80's and 90. and I'm glad that NS kept EL yard alive.... and now CSX killed NS' next door CR yard :( cant win them all...