• CR on the Southern Secondary

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New Jersey
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New Jersey

Moderator: David

  by Bracdude181
Are airlines subsidized? I know trucks are. Another thing is trucks pay a whole lot more taxes than the railroads do. Maybe that’s why most politicians don’t care about the railroads...
  by NY&LB
“Truck pay a whole lot more taxes than railroads”
Source of that data please and need to compare on the same basis
And what do airlines have to do with the Lakehurst yard in 1930?

I did some quick Googling
For the quarter ending 30 September 2021
JB Hunt Income: 261,829K; Income Tax: 62,023K (or 24%)
Union Pacific: Income: 1,670,000K; Income Tax: 507,000K (or 30%)

That is just a quick comparison between a very large trucking company and a very large RR, I have no idea where to find authoritative data on the entire trucking industry in the US.

And those figures I cited are income tax, not Fuel Tax, or any other state or local taxes. So a general statement that trucks pay a whole lot more tax needs to be backed up by REAL data.
  by Tanker1497
Here is a layout of Lakehurst,whats not in the picture is the wye that forms off the Banegate branch back to the main lf top
  by Bracdude181
I think the wye was there when that picture was taken but I’m not sure if it’s completely visible.

@NY&LB What about road taxes? Trucks gotta pay em
  by RailsEast
The trucking industry is subsidized? Hmm, news to me, maybe things have changed.
Also, trucks use roadways paid for by the American tax dollar for the use of everyone; railroads build and maintain their own infrastructure.
This is a dangerous subject, probably needs a thread of it's own for folks to voice their opinions.
And for that reason, I'm out....
  by Bracdude181
@RailsEast Fair enough.

Back to the picture I posted, anyone see what looks like a steam engine way in the background on the mainline?
  by R&DB
#1585362 by Tanker1497
Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:28 pm
Tanker, that map is from the 1920s I believe. The yard was the original Raritan abd Delaware Bay RR shops. Most of the yard, roundhouse and shops were removed in 1929. They kept water, coaling and minor repair shop until about 1954. The wye remained until about 1960.
  by R&DB
#1585368 by Bracdude181
Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:35 pm

The object in the center of the picture that the middle track diverts around was the waterstation. I have a photo somewhere of the Blue Comet taking on water there. The concrete pad there still exsists.
#1585403 by Forest3670
Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:25 am
Obviouly pre Route 70.
Last edited by R&DB on Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  by GSC
Bob Hoeft's article on working the Southern around 1953 mentioned taking on water before using the turntable, both at Lakehurst and Red Bank, so the table would be balanced and easier to turn. After turning the engine, the train would be spotted on the TRIT lead until it was time to return to Red Bank. There were ways to take the coach seats apart to make beds so the crew could take naps while they were waiting. This was during the transition time from the last of the Camelbacks to the arrival of FM HH1500s. Both types of power were used at that time, as well as on JS1 and SJ2 through freights. Great article. It appeared in the Anthracite Historical Society's newsletter "Black Diamond" years ago.
  by Bracdude181
@GSC What’s an HH1500? Never heard of that before.
  by R&DB
Bracdude181 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:14 pm @GSC What’s an HH1500? Never heard of that before.
I think GSC may have this confused with the Baldwin DR-4-4-1500 ( a cab unit) 0r possibly the Faibanks-Morse H15-44 (aka Baby Traimaster a road switcher). Both were 1500HP. The only ALCO HH series that CNJ used were HH600s, a 600HP yard switcher.
Last edited by R&DB on Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
  by Bracdude181
So since Thanksgiving is tomorrow we can probably expect them to run today, Friday, or at some point over the weekend. Won’t know for sure until we hear a call in on Coast Line.
  by Ken W2KB
JohnFromJersey wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:39 pm
If the municipal zoning code has been changed such that any, or one or more specific industrial uses, are now non-conforming use, only the existing use is fairly certain to be legally entitled to grandfathering. An excerpt from a NJ attorney publication explains it in simple terms thusly: "the primary issues are (1) whether the use is legal in the first place, (2) whether the upgrade would expand it, and if so, (3) whether it would qualitatively change it to such a degree that, in reality, it is more fairly characterized as an entirely new use rather than an expansion of the pre-existing one."
  by GSC
Bracdude181 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:14 pm @GSC What’s an HH1500? Never heard of that before.
Fairbanks-Morse H15-44. Some call them Baby Trainmasters. I think I got the 1500 from CNJ's numbering system.CNJ numbered all the 1500 hp units in the 1500 series. The FM H15-44s were 1501-1513 (1514-1517 were FM H16-44s) the Geep-7s were 1520-1532; and the Alco RS3s were 1533-1560, 1562-1566. (1561 was an RS2).

According to Hoeft's article, the Fairbanks-Morse diesels were the first diesels to work the Southern, Barnegat, Freehold, and Atlantic Highlands Branches, alongside the last of the Camelback 4-6-0s.
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