Amtrak asks for reports on unsual interest in operations

WASHINGTON, Dec. 20 -- The National Railroad Passenger Corp. (Amtrak) issued the following press release; an excerpt follows:

• As part of an effort to enhance the safety and security of passengers and crew, Amtrak passengers are being asked to add a valuable layer of security aboard trains and in stations. Part of Amtrak's Security Awareness campaign, the "See Something? Say Something!" poster urges train travelers to be aware of their surroundings and to report any suspicious items or activity to Amtrak personnel or police.

So now their turing us into their agents.

"Hey I saw a funny looking guy with a camera mounted on a tripod at MP47!"

Hopefully post 9/11, things have changed.

Unfortunately, I can recall the sorry incident that occurred during the 1996 Atlanta Olympic Games where a bomb was reported by a person shortly before it detonated.

Guess who ended up the "person of interest"?

Well lets hope they aren't getting railfans.

John

Interesting comments above, as all of the transit agencies in the NY metro area shortly after 9/11 have adopted the message that Amtrak is now officially releasing - "See Something? Say Something!" I hear this message every day in my travels.

I believe this is a federal campaign. The MBTA has been doing it for most of the year, although it got signifigantly less attention after the DNC in Boston.

I'd be intereted to hear whether Amtrak and the transit authorities are getting any money for real security measures (police, cameras, security systems, etc.) or just for posters and announcements that scare people about their fellow passengers.

This "giggle' would certainly suggest that Amtrak is simply "following suit" with many another public agency.

Mr. Norman:

This is indeed a giggle for me. I have a fond recollection of a trip I took in 1970, when I was in high school, from WAS to NYP. I was with a railfan friend, and those days we were into recording engine numbers. We both had notebooks, and the entire trip we went back and forth across the car, shouting excitedly to each other things like "GG1 4423, NB at Bayview", or "E44 4491 SB on a road freight", after which we would scribble in our notebooks.

Two sailors in uniform were sitting a couple of rows behind us. Around Wilmington, one turned to the other and said, "I think I've cracked the code".

These days, we'd probably both be in Guantanamo as quick as you could say John Ashcroft.

jfrey40535 wrote:So now their turing us into their agents."

More like encouraging people to watch each other's backs. Its just common sense. Official agents can't see everything, and we shouldn't expect them to. We can help them protect us.

Here are New York City Transit's posters for this:
The NYCT campaign was created pro bono by Kory Kay & Partners.

MBTA has also launched a round of station posters and car cards as well.

I'm planning on creating business cards for my website so that when I'm out rail fanning and taking photos, I'll have a reference for "legitimacy" purposes.

I'd be more suspicious of someone taking photos of a transmission tower or electrical generating station along the mainline as opposed to someone taking pictures of a train. I'd also be more suspicious of someone taking photos of column supports and things of that nature on the platform of Penn, 30th Street, Union, Grand Central and Union Station (to name a few). I just don't see how harmful taking a picture of a Train can be. I would think static targets are more of a concern. I know people can make examples of the Madrid train bombing earlier this year however; you don't need photos for such an act. (I hope I don't come across as some expert in how to be a terrorist, lol)

Terrorists are going to attack infrastructure (Bridges, Tunnels and major transit hubs; hence static objects)

If I step on folks' toes here too bad but it has to be said.

Frankly I am surprised everyone is in an uproar. Guess what- WE ARE SUSPICIOUS! The vast majority of folks find our behavior suspicious! We participate in a hobby that most folks wouldn't think twice about and in this day and age it's GUARENTEED to draw dirty looks and double-takes from folks. Either live with it or make a scene. Either way WE ARE SUSPICIOUS!

Well in converse to that, I don't see people giving bird watchers dirty looks either. If American Society gets too carried away with this they might as well treat bird watchers and general photographers the same way. Someone taking a photo of a lake which also happens to be a reservoir or taking a photo on that same lake of some birds. Most people wouldn't think twice about those hobbies either.

I deal with the dirty looks all the time. In fact I laugh it off. I guess some of those dirty looks come from one track minds (Taking pictures = terrorism), lol.

Rail Photography is no different from taking pictures of buildings, birds, landscapes, and general photographs (Professional Phtograpy type photos that one would find in a portfolio)

mlrr wrote:If American Society gets too carried away with this they might as well treat bird watchers and general photographers the same way.

Taking picture of a harmless birds is one thing, taking pictures of a vehichle carrying 100s of passengers and/or 1000s of pounds of freight is another. One is not suspicious, the other is blatantly suspicious. Reason being? One can and probably will kill and injure thousands of people, the other will not. One can and probably will cause massive damage to infrestructure. The other will cause massive damage to a tree or two at most. Pretty justified in getting carried away.

Someone taking a photo of a lake which also happens to be a reservoir or taking a photo on that same lake of some birds.

You try photographing a resevoir for hours on end chasing something...watch how long it takes before you have an officer questioning you. Go ahead, try it...

I deal with the dirty looks all the time. In fact I laugh it off. I guess some of those dirty looks come from one track minds (Taking pictures = terrorism), lol.

From that arrogence I believe they are well deserved looks, baiting them just so you can complain about them.


Go ahead and flame away, doesn't change the fact that to everyone else but railfans IT IS SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY.

Taken in context, railroad and other industrial facility photography is a suspicious activity. Part, but just part, of the profile of a terrorist, be it domestic or foreign.

By way of example, arson investigators often view photos of viewers at major fires to look for indicia of potential arsonists. One of those indicia is a spectator photographing the fire suppression activity. Does that make the individiul a prime suspect for arson? No, but if that individual is present at the crowd at several fires, a more detailed investigation might be made. Firebuffs and railfans.

A police officer seeing a railfan might, and as reported here, have done a field check on that person. That simply is good police work, whether for the arson example, photographing a bank or jewelry store, etc. Crossing line would occur if, for example, the officer were to direct the railfan to leave a place at which the fan is lawfully present, etc.