Snow removal now and then on LIRR

[mirrodie]

I know there is Jaws, the traditional snow plow.

And there was that Jordan spreader, although I've never seen pics of it in service, wings spread.

Nowawdays with snow, how is it removed? I seem to recall in the 90s seeing what looked like jet engines on wheels that would face the track. parked on the siding on the central branch in west babylon. did they ever see service? Do they still? I have NEVER seen those things in action.

Lastly, I recall in college showing up for per diem work to shovel snow at train stations. It was open to the public and fun money. Anyone recall that? Does that still happen?

[davelirrider]

I know there is Jaws, the traditional snow plow.

And there was that Jordan spreader, although I've never seen pics of it in service, wings spread.

Nowawdays with snow, how is it removed? I seem to recall in the 90s seeing what looked like jet engines on wheels that would face the track. parked on the siding on the central branch in west babylon. did they ever see service? Do they still? I have NEVER seen those things in action.

Lastly, I recall in college showing up for per diem work to shovel snow at train stations. It was open to the public and fun money. Anyone recall that? Does that still happen?

I vividly recall not only seeing but HEARING those jet engines blowing the snow off the track on the Babylon lead. it really made for quite a show.

[LongIslandTool]

Station and yard snow removal is done by the Track, Signal, High tension, Stations, ET and M of E Departments.

Last month the UTU apparently made a somewhat secret deal to get furloughed trainmen rehired. The snow shoveling that was done by the trackmen will, in the future be given to outside contractors. This is a huge loss to trackmen; for most of them it was their only overtime.

Contractors presently clear driveways and sidewalks in most yards.

When the demand exceeds the manpower, the Railroad does hire daily help. You need to bring your own shovel.

The jet blowers -- an idea of former President Gabreski, the fighter pilot -- are extremely slow. They also hurl ballast through car windshields. They melt track wires and consume HUGE amounts of fuel.

[Teutobergerwald]

I remember a snow blower named Thunderbolt was kept at the Hicksville Yard back in the Eighties. Francis Gabreski flew the Republic P-47 Thunderbolt during his time as a member of the USAAF in the E.T.O. during World War II.

[nyandw]

http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/snow/lirrwinter.htm
http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/lirrmow.htm scroll to Snow Removal section

Thunderbolt

[REM3Night]

See Air Forced One in action on You Tube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUeK-2ipP9w
Ray

[MACTRAXX]

http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/snow/lirrwinter.htm
http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/lirrmow.htm scroll to Snow Removal section

Thunderbolt

Everyone: I have never seen "Thunderbolt" in action and I like Tool's insight concerning the use of a jet plow on the LIRR...
I have a few questions to ask and thoughts:
How much fuel did the tank on that unit hold? It does not look like it held much...
What keeps it from moving down the track when the jet is on? Good brakes?
Is it weighted to counter the jet engine's acceleration?
I could picture that thing doing 100 mph with the jet in full acceleration...
I will bet that thing was LOUD and I now wonder if the LIRR ever got noise complaints over its use...

I watched a YouTube video from the posted link of a jet plow in operation on CSX in the Buffalo area and when I played it I actually woke up one of my sleeping friends
who wondered what the loud noise was...

In closing what had good intentions to help the LIRR fight snow definitely had a downside...MACTRAXX

[2behind1]

Station and yard snow removal is done by the Track, Signal, High tension, Stations, ET and M of E Departments.

Last month the UTU apparently made a somewhat secret deal to get furloughed trainmen rehired. The snow shoveling that was done by the trackmen will, in the future be given to outside contractors. This is a huge loss to trackmen; for most of them it was their only overtime.

Contractors presently clear driveways and sidewalks in most yards.

When the demand exceeds the manpower, the Railroad does hire daily help. You need to bring your own shovel.

The jet blowers -- an idea of former President Gabreski, the fighter pilot -- are extremely slow. They also hurl ballast through car windshields. They melt track wires and consume HUGE amounts of fuel.

Actually, Tool, the hiring "off the street" of people to shovel snow is a regular occurance whether demand exceeds manpower, or not. Methinks that was a "sidebar agreement" of previuos represented regimes. Much akin to the Loram track cars with Loram personnel which now carry additional cars (read train) and are "piloted" and "flagged"by Track Department personnel. That too, was a sidebar agreement by the former UTU General Chairman/professional collector, who actually represented the track department better than Yard and Road personnel ("I got 1000 passenger trainmen to worry about. *##%&& those guys.").

[baileyjet2000]

I remember when I was about 16, my brothers and several friends went down to Jamaica to shape up for snow removal. We ended up doing the stations around home (Bellaire, Queens Village and Hollis) it was hard work but the pay was fairly decent if I recall.

Ray J
RSW

[LongIslandTool]

You make some interesting points;

"Actually, Tool, the hiring "off the street" of people to shovel snow is a regular occurance whether demand exceeds manpower, or not. Methinks that was a "sidebar agreement" of previuos represented regimes. Much akin to the Loram track cars with Loram personnel which now carry additional cars (read train) and are "piloted" and "flagged"by Track Department personnel. That too, was a sidebar agreement by the former UTU General Chairman/professional collector, who actually represented the track department better than Yard and Road personnel ("I got 1000 passenger trainmen to worry about. *##%&& those guys.").

I'm quite familiar with both of these issues, and I'd like to comment on them as I see them.

It is a violation of at least three contracts for the LIRR to hire outside "day workers" for snow removal unless all members in the affected crafts have been offered work and are working.

An outside contractor working on a track project would be flagged and piloted by qualified Track Department personnel, not Conductors or Engineers. If it were a station or grading project, the flagging and piloting would go to Conductors or possibly Engineers. The distinction between "train" and "track car" is defined by the Government in the CFR. These days there are "track cars" that consist of several units, coupled together and operated on their own power.

I believe Track Department forces were awarded these duties in a 1974 agreement.

If work is being performed that violates the agreements, it is your representatives' duties to grieve them.

Now I know some forum readers may feel this type of post is out of the bounds of a railfan venue, but I believe it offers a unique insight into labor/management agreements and negotiation that shapes and forms many of railroads' operations and practices. We're refraining from table pounding, name calling arguments here, but just offering how simple decisions are shaken out on railroad properties.

[Super Seis]

FWIW, the jet engined snowplow was invented by the New York Central Research Dept.

SS

[ch00ch00]

Sometime, around 1949-50, I and a couple friends, hired on during a heavy snow storm, to shovel station platforms and pedestrian walkways. All that was needed was a Social Security card. After the local platforms were done, we took OUR new shovels and did sidewalks and driveways, for some extra money.

Ed

[freightguy]

I and a couple friends, hired on during a heavy snow storm, to shovel station platforms and pedestrian walkways. All that was needed was a Social Security card. After the local platforms were done, we took OUR new shovels and did sidewalks and driveways, for some extra money.

Kind of ironic, today you might not even need a social Security card to shovel the snow.

[ElliotCourtney]

Are they starting to run the sandite/alcohol trains alredy? I belive I saw 2 MP15's sandwiching one of the cars going thru Babylon this morning (12/13).

[ex-tc driver]

Being an ex-track foreman I hated running those jets the fumes and noise would give me one terrible headache. They where only good on non-heated freight switches[ fresh pond, yard A, Bay Ridge branch]. The railroad keeps one in Babylon team, one time my office told me to use it in Babylon yard I called the yardmaster he said dont even think about it he had enough problems LOL. They look impressive on TV news video though, looks like something is being done when the the railroad is questioned on what they are doing during a storm. They used a tremendous amount of fuel about every couple hours of use they had to be filled. They were set up to run only ten percent of thier rated power for obvious reasons.