The Atlantic City Line Thread

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njt/mnrrbuff
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Re: The Atlantic City Line Thread

Post by njt/mnrrbuff » Sat Dec 15, 2018 2:52 pm

I can definately understand the frustrations about the ACRL restoring rail service answer as well as NJT in general. It seems that it's a more important line than NJT might think, especially when heading to AC from South Jersey. People work in Atlantic City too, not just Philadelphia.

While not related to the ACRL, but still NJT. Up north, for about a month, NJT has been randomly cancelling Montclair-Boonton Line Train # 267 every day that it runs and it is getting on so many people's nerves. Fortunately, I don't have to ride it but nevertheless, I find it frustrating. People who work in Jersey City close to Hoboken Terminal who depend on Train # 267 often have to wait a very long time for the next train. NJT shouldn't be cancelling trains randomly on a regular basis. Instead, they should look at the ridership stats for the trains as well as ones that operate very close to each other and if they see that they should combine trains(i.e. a local with an express), then notify customers as soon as you know that the changes will happen. Passengers have to be home at certain times and many of them aren't in positions to come home later than usual. They have family stuff, school meetings, might want to get a workout done at the gym, etc.

NorthPennLimited
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Re: The Atlantic City Line Thread

Post by NorthPennLimited » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:54 pm

Does NJT have the option in their charter to sub contract operations on the AC Line to another railroad (ie, AMTRAK, SEPTA, Keolis) with the subsidy payments they receive from the NJ legislature to run service between Philadelphia and Atlantic City?

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Re: The Atlantic City Line Thread

Post by jamesinclair » Sun Dec 16, 2018 2:36 pm

NJT may want to close the line, but theres no way the politicians will allow it.

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Re: The Atlantic City Line Thread

Post by CentralValleyRail » Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:34 pm

NorthPennLimited wrote:Does NJT have the option in their charter to sub contract operations on the AC Line to another railroad (ie, AMTRAK, SEPTA, Keolis) with the subsidy payments they receive from the NJ legislature to run service between Philadelphia and Atlantic City?
This would actually make sense if Septa had a diesel fleet. ACL is very isolated for any work that needs to be done up to MMC they go. IF you base ACL out of PHL with Septa then your repairs are done right there. Problem is Septa crews would have to lease some engines and get trained on them which won't happen.

Amtrak tried running the line in the late 80s early 90s to no success...

While the economy is doing well now just wait till our next recession AC will be the first thing shutting down. All their new resorts cost double triple (and somewhat understandably) given the higher level of luxury they percieve. With that being said a bad economy will cause them to close up shop even faster similar to the REVEL. $599 for a BASIC room at the Ocean Resort/Borgota on a Saturday Night is outrageous. I can fly to Miami ROUND TRIP, pay for UBER to Hard Rock Seminole and get a room at the 5 star Mandarin Oriental for cheaper during the summer. Why on earth would I go to AC. You could even fly out to Vegas and stay on the strip on a Saturday night for the same price. And oh let's not forget about the crowd that frequents AC.... very trashy. Sunday night's rate at $79 I may try once just to try it but a Saturday night forgetabouttit

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lensovet
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Re: The Atlantic City Line Thread

Post by lensovet » Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:56 pm

Ah yes a radio host said it and we have a feeling so it must be true.

Some people…

They never gave a date for the full restoration of service in the north either. I guess that means they are never restoring that service too? lol.
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Re: The Atlantic City Line Thread

Post by ryanov » Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:29 am

lensovet wrote:
Backshophoss wrote:NJT is hiding behind the Equipment shortage due to on board ACSES gear installs on the locos and cab cars.
Were there crew shortage issues on this line like they have up north?
manpower was transferred north. time will tell. there's no point in restoring service on just one line; they will do it all in one fell swoop when the PTC stuff is done.
Sorry, that doesn't make a lot of sense. They managed to cut service on just one line pretty well (unless you count the Princeton Branch).

It's a big difference to put all of those people on buses vs. eliminating a few trains in an already busy schedule.
CentralValleyRail wrote:And oh let's not forget about the crowd that frequents AC.... very trashy.
Just stop. Plenty of people go to AC, myself included.
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lensovet
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Re: The Atlantic City Line Thread

Post by lensovet » Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:58 pm

meanwhile in the real world…

https://www.njtransit.com/tm/tm_servlet ... SE_ID=3263" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Following the completion of end-of-year federally mandated Positive Train Control (PTC) installation, NJ TRANSIT is committed to reopening the Atlantic City Rail Line (ACRL) in early 2019 pending the review and approval of our recent submission to the Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) for the alternate schedule, which extends the deadline for full PTC implementation to December 31, 2020. In recognition of the continued impact on ACRL customers, NJ TRANSIT will extend the 25 percent discount on tickets and passes through the end of January 2019.
so, for those who continue to see some crazy conspiracy here, it looks like the tentative date is based on whenever the FRA gets back to NJT on their plans. If everything is approved, then service will be restored. If not…blame the FRA, or NJT's former management which thought that they could get an extension. Either way I suspect that you won't see restoration of service before February.
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Re: The Atlantic City Line Thread

Post by Backshophoss » Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:30 pm

That will depend on how long the government shutdown lasts, due to an unneeded wall! :P :P :P
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Re: The Atlantic City Line Thread

Post by liftedjeep » Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:11 pm

Backshophoss wrote:due to an unneeded wall! :P :P :P
Dude, you know the deal. Leave out the politics.

It's only gonna open another can of worms on this thread.
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Re: The Atlantic City Line Thread

Post by MedicSutton » Wed Dec 26, 2018 3:05 am

I’m not sure I understand how reinstating service on the ACL requires FRA approval. The decision to bustitute was made by NJ Transit due to whatever the reason is this week.. Since I’m an idiot can someone please clarify exactly what approval NJ Transit requires from the FRA to run trains on the ACL ? I have asked NJ Transit to provide this information. They had been responsive until I requested this info. Nothing but crickets now..
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Re: The Atlantic City Line Thread

Post by glennk419 » Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:43 am

MedicSutton wrote:I’m not sure I understand how reinstating service on the ACL requires FRA approval. The decision to bustitute was made by NJ Transit due to whatever the reason is this week.. Since I’m an idiot can someone please clarify exactly what approval NJ Transit requires from the FRA to run trains on the ACL ? I have asked NJ Transit to provide this information. They had been responsive until I requested this info. Nothing but crickets now..
I believe where the FRA comes in is for approval of the PTC installation. If not FRA certified, then NJT would be subject to fines and/or (further) service disruption.
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Re: The Atlantic City Line Thread

Post by MedicSutton » Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:02 pm

If that was the case then how are any of the other NJ Transit Lines running without FRA approval? The only difference between the ACL and any other NJ Transit lines is that Service is under suspension which to the best of my knowledge never has created the need for FRA approval to reinstate service on any line in the past which has been under suspension. My suspicion is that we are again being lied to. I don’t believe for one second the suspension is due a so called need for FRA approval. Idk. Maybe I’m just the only one not buying into this excuse. I’d love to see any evidence that the FRA has banned service on the ACL.
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Backshophoss
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Re: The Atlantic City Line Thread

Post by Backshophoss » Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:19 pm

With USDOT and FRA shutdown, the ENTIRE System wide approval of NJT's PTC is not possible, including systems testing schedule,
and roll out on both divisions and NEC service.
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lensovet
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Re: The Atlantic City Line Thread

Post by lensovet » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:07 am

MedicSutton wrote:If that was the case then how are any of the other NJ Transit Lines running without FRA approval? The only difference between the ACL and any other NJ Transit lines is that Service is under suspension which to the best of my knowledge never has created the need for FRA approval to reinstate service on any line in the past which has been under suspension. My suspicion is that we are again being lied to. I don’t believe for one second the suspension is due a so called need for FRA approval. Idk. Maybe I’m just the only one not buying into this excuse. I’d love to see any evidence that the FRA has banned service on the ACL.
it's quite straightforward…

1. tons of equipment had to be taken out of service for PTC upgrades. in the northern part of the state, this has resulted in cancellation of multiple trains.
2. eventually even more equipment had to be taken out. choice was to cut service even more on the northern lines, or take the equipment used on the ACL, move it north, and eliminate service on the ACL entirely. probably not a hard choice to be made for the line with the lowest ridership in the system.
3. returning equipment back to service is dependent on FRA's certification. therefore equipment shortage will remain in place until equipment has been certified and plan approved.

at least that's my reading of it, with zero insider knowledge.
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Re: The Atlantic City Line Thread

Post by nomis » Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:36 am

Once (hopefully) the 2020 waiver is sercured by NJT, then PTC implemetaetion, on a per line basis, needs live testing to occur before PTC is actually implemented.
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