Amtrak GG1 Fleet

[Tadman]

I recently saw this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_db_63NNXY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And realized that Amtrak did very little repaints on the GG1 fleet. This is in contrast with the E/F fleet, quite a lot of which received new paint and some received overhaul/rebuild. Any idea why this is? Either fleet was supposed to be replaced in the last 1970's, but the G fleet was the power for the flagship service out east.

[CarterB]

IIRC, Amtrak got 40 GG1s, a few were repainted Silver with red hoods, thick blue stripe, black block lettering.902, 905 (4905), 906 (4906), 909 (4909), 924 (4924), 926 (4926) and 927 (4927)
http://history.amtrak.com/archives/gg-1 ... -game-1975" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://s223.photobucket.com/user/piotro ... 0.jpg.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.newdavesrailpix.com/amtrak/h ... by_290.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=3334089" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Most IIRC remained PC black.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRR_GG1#me ... No_904.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[rohr turbo]

IMO, the Metroliner represented the 'flagship service' in the East, not GG1-hauled coaches which were a bit of an embarrassment. I'll bet the GG1s were considered pedestrian workhorses (nearing end of their useful lives) like we think of AEM7s today.

In the early 70s, if Amtrak wanted a shiny beautiful train to symbolize a new generation of passenger train service, they had the UA Turbos.

I love GG1s, but I think they look ridiculous in Platinum Mist and a red clown nose. This handsome Loewy-designed locomotive actually looks better in PC black. again, just my opinion.

[CarterB]

IMO, the Metroliner represented the 'flagship service' in the East, not GG1-hauled coaches which were a bit of an embarrassment. I'll bet the GG1s were considered pedestrian workhorses (nearing end of their useful lives) like we think of AEM7s today.

In the early 70s, if Amtrak wanted a shiny beautiful train to symbolize a new generation of passenger train service, they had the UA Turbos.

Not so on such trains as the Silvers, B'way Ltd. Crescent, etc. that used the NEC for their route. Those certainly weren't the trains of old, but were among the 'best' Amtrak had and used GG1s.

[early80sNECguy]

Ownership for most of the GG1 fleet was not completed until 1976 so they didn't own them to paint. (transfer along with NEC track done on CR day) That is a main reason you see a lot up to that point with 900 series number, but PC worms. Also by 1976 E60's were ordered and their flaws still unknown so why paint something you are about to scrap. Couple that with just enough G's to cover their needs, downtime was kept to a minimum thus no time to paint.

I think a G in Phase 1 could have been tasteful if done right.

[green_elite_cab]

Side note, apparently, the Penn Central actually renumbered several of its GG1s in the "4900" series so that the last two digits were not the same as any Amtrak GG1.

This resulted in one PC GG1 being renumbered 4939, one number higher than the original GG1 number block. This was apparently done prior to Conrail or any of the AEM7 related renumberings. 10 more GG1s were added to Amtrak after Conrail, but I am not sure if they ever were renumbered, I'll have to check the books when I get home.

[BuddCar711]

I wonder how those engineers were able to cope with the lack of visibility being so far back from the front end.

[Backshophoss]

There were GG-1's in tuscan red and brunswick green under PRR,the entire fleet migrated to black dip
under PC,CR kept the black for most of the fleet,4800 went red/white/blue BiCentenial paint and
1 other was CR blue.
4877 was returned to tuscan red,4935 was returned to brunswick green before the
inforced (by EPA) retirement due to PCB's in the main transformer coolant oil.

[Jersey_Mike]

There were GG-1's in tuscan red and brunswick green under PRR,the entire fleet migrated to black dip
under PC,CR kept the black for most of the fleet,4800 went red/white/blue BiCentenial paint and
1 other was CR blue.
4877 was returned to tuscan red,4935 was returned to brunswick green before the
inforced (by EPA) retirement due to PCB's in the main transformer coolant oil.

The GG!s were retired due to frame cracks (and being 50 years old), not transformer oil.

[chuchubob]

...
4877 was returned to tuscan red,4935 was returned to brunswick green before the
inforced (by EPA) retirement due to PCB's in the main transformer coolant oil...

4877
4935

[TomNelligan]

I wonder how those engineers were able to cope with the lack of visibility being so far back from the front end.

Very limited forward visibility by today's standards, but it was no worse than the steam locomotives that were standard power just about everywhere in the country when the GG1s were designed in the 1930s. (Of course box cab electrics with unobstructed forward view were also common on electric lines by then, including the Pennsy's original P5s and the ancestral DD1s.)

Noel Weaver ran GGls in his career and I know he has commented on the visibility issue on this forum sometime in the past.

[green_elite_cab]

4877 was returned to tuscan red,

As it turns out, 4877 never wore Tuscan red during its PRR career. This was a choice by NJ Transit and whoever else pushed for the repaint. Can't complain though, it did look good, and besides, 4935 was already sporting the typical Brunswick Green.

The GG!s were retired due to frame cracks (and being 50 years old), not transformer oil.

While frame cracks were the main deciding factor, the PCBs in the GG1's transformers were a significant problem that likely contributed to their retirement. At the time, the EPA was getting serious about PCBs.

As I understood it, the GG1s were already running on special waivers for almost a decade before retirement because of this. The railroads had apparently made the case that A.) rebuilding the GG1 fleet would be disruptive and B.) the GG1's days were numbered to begin with. Because the PCBs were in a "closed" container, it was deemed safe to run them for the time being.

I suspect there are a few MUs on SEPTA and other places that still run with this same waiver (Did SEPTA ever finish working on the Silverliner IVs?)

[Jersey_Mike]

The GG!s were retired due to frame cracks (and being 50 years old), not transformer oil.

While frame cracks were the main deciding factor, the PCBs in the GG1's transformers were a significant problem that likely contributed to their retirement. At the time, the EPA was getting serious about PCBs.

As I understood it, the GG1s were already running on special waivers for almost a decade before retirement because of this. The railroads had apparently made the case that A.) rebuilding the GG1 fleet would be disruptive and B.) the GG1's days were numbered to begin with. Because the PCBs were in a "closed" container, it was deemed safe to run them for the time being.

I suspect there are a few MUs on SEPTA and other places that still run with this same waiver (Did SEPTA ever finish working on the Silverliner IVs?)

PBCs, asbestos and lead paint rarely by themselves cause anything to be scrapped. What the EPA says is that you have to go through 50 different procedures to work on the damn thing to prevent another "Paoli Shops" problem. If there were straight up bans on continued use I wouldn't have seen this gem at CP-SLOPE in 2012.

https://www.acm.jhu.edu//~sthurmovik/Ra ... ormer.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I believe that SEPTA did get around to changing the transformer oil on all of its MUs, but frankly I'm more worried about its Reading vintage autotramsformers.

https://www.acm.jhu.edu//~sthurmovik/Ra ... drain.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[NJRAILNUT]

There were GG-1's in tuscan red and brunswick green under PRR,the entire fleet migrated to black dip
under PC,CR kept the black for most of the fleet,4800 went red/white/blue BiCentenial paint and
1 other was CR blue.

I believe the 4800 wore BOTH the bicentennial paint and the CR blue dip before she was retired. Probably had the most paint schemes of any GG-1, which is cool given that it was the original. I could be wrong though but I believe I've seen pictures of the 4800 in Conrail blue. Didn't look half bad IMHO just a bit off from what we expect on a GG-1.

[NS VIA FAN]

These GG1s look like they could have hauled the Broadway right through to Chicago! (no catenary required )