Brightline Orlando Launch Discussion

[Railjunkie]

A stop in Hobe Sound would be great when I visit my brother who has no money yet manages to live in a nice gated community. Saves me a rental car and when he is working could take a day or two riding.

[west point]

Any stop on FEC north of Cocoa is going to face the same problem that Amtrak has. Not enough operable passengeer cars to meet the demand. At present delivery schedules 10 more passenger cars this year is not going to be enough. Even summer of 2025 who knows???

[markhb]

As someone who participates in the Walt Disney World facebook groups, I really think Brightline needs to look at two things.

1.) Adding a Space coast stop. Ideally, it would incorporate Mebourne airport, as this is becoming a popular stop for people who don't want to deal with MCO but also don't want to be stuck on Allegiant as MLB has AA and Delta whereas Orlando Sanford only has Allegiant.

2.) Add high-density, low-fare seating. $70 dollar fares are too expensive for a family wanting to see Miami for a day or two.

Space Coast has already been announced: it will be just south of the Cocoa curve, since the train already slows down there to make the turn. With that and Stuart being added, I don't think Melbourne is in the cards. Plus, I think the MCO - Cocoa connection for cruises is likely to draw more people than MLB would.

[JohnFromJersey]

Any stop on FEC north of Cocoa is going to face the same problem that Amtrak has. Not enough operable passengeer cars to meet the demand. At present delivery schedules 10 more passenger cars this year is not going to be enough. Even summer of 2025 who knows???

Brightline does want to expand up to Jacksonville at some point, but that will likely be A) years after BLW is finished and B) when Siemens can make Brightline Florida cars much faster

As someone who participates in the Walt Disney World facebook groups, I really think Brightline needs to look at two things.

1.) Adding a Space coast stop. Ideally, it would incorporate Mebourne airport, as this is becoming a popular stop for people who don't want to deal with MCO but also don't want to be stuck on Allegiant as MLB has AA and Delta whereas Orlando Sanford only has Allegiant.

2.) Add high-density, low-fare seating. $70 dollar fares are too expensive for a family wanting to see Miami for a day or two.

Space Coast has already been announced: it will be just south of the Cocoa curve, since the train already slows down there to make the turn. With that and Stuart being added, I don't think Melbourne is in the cards. Plus, I think the MCO - Cocoa connection for cruises is likely to draw more people than MLB would.

MLB is actually just south of the Cocoa curve in of itself, so it *could* work if they had a stop at the airport that also doubled as a connection to cruises, The future of any passenger rail, IMO, is connecting/having grand stations at airports. That being said, having a station at an airport opens a whole can of worms, since you have more government agencies involved, you have to build the station to tighter specs due to building it around the airport, etc. Building a station just south of Cocoa would e cheaper, faster, and require less moving parts than building one at MLB.

As for "high-density, low-fare seating," Brightline isn't Amtrak or a budget intercity/commuter rail, they clearly are more of a "premium" service - and that's why so many people take it over alternatives to it like TriRail

[HenryAlan]

MLB is actually just south of the Cocoa curve in of itself, so it *could* work if they had a stop at the airport that also doubled as a connection to cruises, The future of any passenger rail, IMO, is connecting/having grand stations at airports. That being said, having a station at an airport opens a whole can of worms, since you have more government agencies involved, you have to build the station to tighter specs due to building it around the airport, etc. Building a station just south of Cocoa would e cheaper, faster, and require less moving parts than building one at MLB.

It's 22.5 track miles from the airport to the curve. I don't think that's close enough to be considered proximate. The idea is to put a station where the train is already running slowly, not where it is on a long straightaway.

[Gilbert B Norman]

After my February joyride to Orlando, I have mixed thoughts about having airports becoming rail stations.

On that joyride, I could not help noting how the Brightline station was part of Terminal C which is "way out in left field" and is where the collection of "what's that airline" tie up. The route into the main two terminals, where the "airlines you've heard of" all use is well marked but it involves use of a "people mover" - and still a lot of hoofing. From the main terminals, you have the complete last mile infrastructure (rental autos, liveries, transit vans) - including the "peasant mover", which I used to get "downtown for a buck".

The return "...mover" also arrived same location. I had plenty of time on my hands, but what if I didn't?

It just seemed like a lot of "rigamoreole" to board a train - that is for a rail only passenger. However, I look to the day when Brightline offers joint ticketing and baggage transfer with airlines making a, say, LGA-MCO-Vero Beach journey possible.

So what's first; the ease of access with a train station or the infrastructure only an airport can be expected to have?

[JohnFromJersey]

It's 22.5 track miles from the airport to the curve. I don't think that's close enough to be considered proximate. The idea is to put a station where the train is already running slowly, not where it is on a long straightaway.

I didn't know it was that far. Seemed way closer on a map. That being said, ~20 miles isn't a great distance in the grand scheme of things with how long the Brightline route is.

After my February joyride to Orlando, I have mixed thoughts about having airports becoming rail stations.

On that joyride, I could not help noting how the Brightline station was part of Terminal 3 which is "way out in left field" and is where the collection of "what's that airline" tie up. The route into the main two terminals, where the "airlines you've heard of" all use is well marked but it involves use of a "people mover" - and still a lot of hoofing. From the main terminals, you have the complete last mile infrastructure (rental autos, liveries, transit vans) - including the "peasant mover", which I used to get "downtown for a buck".

Well, Terminal C is brand spanking new, I expect it will get busier and more "well-known" as Orlando continues to grow, and demand at MCO continues to go up.

The return "...mover" also arrived same location. I had plenty of time on my hands, but what if I didn't?

I genuinely think MCO is one of the worst airports ever. First, the people mover situation is a bit ridiculous, why are the boarding terminals so far away from each other that we need a step below a subway for it??? Second, I cannot believe there is only ONE TSA checkpoint in the whole airport. I arrived at the airport 2 hours ahead of time, and still barely made it to my gate 5 minutes before the gates closed due to all the nonsense there.

It just seemed like a lot of "rigamoreole" to board a train - that is for a rail only passenger. However, I look to the day when Brightline offers joint ticketing and baggage transfer with airlines making a, say, LGA-MCO-Vero Beach journey possible.

So what's first; the ease of access with a train station or the infrastructure only an airport can be expected to have?

You can get dropped off at Terminal C by rideshare or Taxi or whatever, and go straight to the train station without having to go through the other terminal(s) first. Very easy, but I do not know/think if they have bus options there... Surely, when/if SunRail connects to Terminal C, it will make the experience better

I think airport terminus for trains makes sense, since it makes the train more competitive with airlines (especially between Miami and Orlando).

[west point]

I genuinely think MCO is one of the worst airports ever. First, the people mover situation is a bit ridiculous, why are the boarding terminals so far away from each other that we need a step below a subway for it??? Second, I cannot believe there is only ONE TSA checkpoint in the whole airport. I arrived at the airport 2 hours ahead of time, and still barely made it to my gate 5 minutes before the gates closed due to all the nonsense there.

It comes down to POLS saying we are going to build a Taj Mahal. No consideration as to passenger ease. Now the airlines are guilty as well. They agree to the building of these castles expecting the higher landing fees can be passed on to the customer. Completely agree with you. As an ATL airport user it is much better designed for O & Ds and transfers. As well ATL costs to build and expand the terminal and concourses probably is about 30% of MCO.

[Gilbert B Norman]

Well Officer/Captain West Point, all I know of KATL is how to get from United to MARTA (I have enough friends there so I need not rent) thence to Dunwoody and the Crowne there.

Also v.v.

But interesting how you hold that KATL, as they ostensibly "improve" the place, they do so for "less $$$$ allocated over each landing" meaning the airlines, again ostensibly, need assess their passengers less than for a landing at KMCO.

(note for those who follow my "bylines" when I travel. More of my stays there have been at Hyatt Brookhaven of late, but there's a lot of vegetation about that property making me uncomfortable walking about it after dark. No such issues walking from MARTA Dunwoody to Crowne).

[west point]

All that wasted space at KMCO is just that - a waste. Just more locations to install many separators.

[RandallW]

MCO is busy, but its traffic is almost entirely O & D travel (i.e., it has basically no transfers). I personally hate ATL (as my father says "All flights to Hell change in Atlanta") as it feels like a giant bus terminal, but it is clear that the TSA check point was shoehorned into MCO after the fact. I think MCO is designed to handle massive rains in an area of little to no drainage as those holding ponds are huge, and that likely means they spread it out for that reason (the west apron being all USAF when MCO terminals A and B were designed means MCO is likely where the USAF allowed runoff to flow).

Do note that MCO plans on building a D concourse on the opposite side of the Brightline station from C concourse. I think it's kind of brilliant to put the "what's that airline" (mostly non-US international) gates beside Brightline--it allows MCO to compete with MIA for some international travel by enabling those airlines to directly serve the tourist destinations IVO Orlando instead of flying into (say) MIA or ATL and then relying on some air shuttle to get passengers to Orlando and allowing non-Orlando passengers to use Brightline to get to their destinations (I've seen overseas tour groups at the parks that could easily take ~1/2 of a 787 or A350 cabin which suggests that international flights into MCO are catering directly to that trade, but if a few extra seats for other destinations in Florida can be carried, so much the better.

[Gilbert B Norman]

Random thoughts

I think we are looking at getting the three Brightline Treasure Coast stops planned up and running will be the key to whatever coordination Brightline will have at McCOy with AA, UA, DL, WN, or otherwise "the airlines you've heard of" (oh, and AS as well; especially since the "if it's Boeing then I'm going" KPDX incident). Only Mickey (plus whoever is Universal's best known mascot) knows how many of his visitors are from in-State and how many come from Brightline's service area. But, having Brightline tie up where the Ground Transport infrastructure only a major airport can offer, is certainly a "plus".

With their Daily admission fees of some $150 (wow, is a valid Disney World 1983 never expires ticket I have worth something nowadays), "po-folk" simply don't go to those parks; nor do they ride Brightline (well, maybe during the time when it was a Disneyland ride for $10).

Finally, I think back to January '23 when I was in Miami for the Cleveland Orchestra. I couldn't help but note how the Sunday following the concert, there were busses parked in front of the hotel (Marriott Biscayne Bay; funny how I end up staying at the same hotel at which the Orchestra stays) and here were the musicians (and might I say, Franz Welser-Most himself) getting ready to leave for a performance at Dr. Phillips PAC in Orlando. They were taking these busses to MIA where they were then going to fly to MCO, perform, thence return to MIA and the hotel.

Must wonder if they were to do a like performance today, would Brightline be in the running?

[Jeff Smith]

ADMIN NOTE: there are two distinct threads for Treasure Coast (Stuart) and Cocoa stations.

Treasure Coast: brightline-treasure-coast-station-stuar ... 75605.html

Cocoa: cocoa-station-t176766.html

This thread was for the Orlando launch. Thanks!

[Bob Roberts]

Brightline does want to expand up to Jacksonville at some point, but that will likely be A) years after BLW is finished and B) when Siemens can make Brightline Florida cars much faster

FWIW Siemens PR says that their NC assembly facility should begin production "in late 2024". My recent trips past the facility on the Piedmont make me think it will be later than that however.

https://www.mobility.siemens.com/us/en/ ... ngton.html