NYSW OnTrack's dirty laundry?

[Otto Vondrak]

Check out this story from Syracuse.com... doesn't paint a good picture at all...

http://www.syracuse.com/articles/news/i ... thispage=1

(there are four pages to the story, make sure you click through all of them)

-otto-

[clearblock]

The story seems to be an accurate description of the history of OnTrack but I think the issues blocking completion of the Park St bridge is what killed any chance of the service being successful.

The line had the potential of several sources of passenger traffic:

Syracuse University
Downtown Syracuse
Mall
Amtrak/Transportation Center
Ball Park

With the last two not accessible due to the bridge it was only a shuttle to the Mall. If the Amtrak station had been included in the existing route and with the pending major expansion of the mall it could be an attractive transportation alternative. Maybe still not profitable but an asset to the community.

[Otto Vondrak]

Seems that bridge held up any and all expansion. We've discussed that before. Now I hear conflicting stories that range from the County seeking a new operator, and looking to reclaim the equipment to complete abandonment. Nothing has surfaced either way to show significant change.

-otto-

[RailBus63]

OnTrack makes the most sense for large events - football games at the Carrier Dome, potential baseball traffic to the Chiefs stadium. The rest of the time, it just doesn't work. Syracuse is a car town, so regular folks who might take the train to the Dome five times a year will drive at other times. The transit-dependent have the much more convenient Centro bus system. The main traffic source should be Syracuse University students, but the train platform is at the far corner of the campus at the bottom of a hill. Centro bus service to and from SU is much more frequent, connects to the campus bus system serving the various dorms, and most buses from the SU campus run directly to both the Carousel Center mall and the regional transportation center.

In retrospect, it was a waste of money.

[roadster]

a novel attempt by Walter and his railfan interest which simply did not fit the regions business needs. Alternative public transportation is more accessable and convenient. with the ever rising fuel cost of the current economy, it may have stood a better chance today except it needed to make the connection to the Transportation center and regional market. Not to mention the potential of a light rail service connecting to the Airport.

[Otto Vondrak]

a novel attempt by Walter and his railfan interest which simply did not fit the regions business needs.

In its current form. If Conrail and CSX had not blocked construction of the bridge, we might be talking about a different story here.

-otto-

[ricebrianrice]

But you have to remember that Ontrack was just a means to an end, it was what Walter needed to get control over the north end of the Syracuse side from Conrail so he could take back the stack trains that CP was handling west of Binghamton. Eventually that led to moving the entire interchange from Utica, to trackage rights right into Dewitt. It was never intended to make money or grow very much.

I think this statement, from the thread in Susquehanna List, sums it up.

It's too bad, but with Walter gone, the focus of the NYS&W is freight as it should be, not passenger excursions, and such.

[lvrr325]

That's my quote, fwiw.

I did ask my source what's going on with this and he said whoever was negotiating with the county for one of the potential new operators, had things all messed up.

[scharnhorst]

seem like the service could have come in hand for the people who work at University Hospital. Many of the people who work there have to park at the Ball Park and hop a bus to the hospital where they work. If you don't know whats going on the hospital is exspanding and parking space next to the hospital is thight for everyone at this time.

[nessman]

Any time you have a "private / public" partnership in the realm of public or mass transportation all one needs to do is follow the money trail (campaign contributions, construction contracts, etc.). Politicians get re-elected, contractors get more contracts. In the end, it's the taxpayer that ends up getting the fecal matter end of the stick.

[Otto Vondrak]

I wonder if there will be a follow-up in the Syracuse papers. It's easy to go after the story about a dead guy's railroad screwing the county out of money. Wonder if anyone bothered to talk to CSX and get their side of the story regarding the bridge delays? Nah, easier to pick apart the NYSW because Walter Rich can't defend himself.

-otto-

[nessman]

I wonder if there will be a follow-up in the Syracuse papers. It's easy to go after the story about a dead guy's railroad screwing the county out of money. Wonder if anyone bothered to talk to CSX and get their side of the story regarding the bridge delays? Nah, easier to pick apart the NYSW because Walter Rich can't defend himself.

I don't think this is a "pick on the dead guy" slam. I just spent 4-1/2 yrs in public transit and have close personal ties with some of the political luminaries in Rochester and Syracuse - I know first hand how it all works. It's not that hard - you make big political donations to re-election funds, GOP committees, etc... and you find yourself on the list of companies who get contracts for public works projects... or you become the recipient for state/federal grant funding for improvements to your company or significant tax breaks based on (often flawed) economic development potential - i.e., new or retained jobs, keeping your company from moving out of town, etc.

It's all a big game of corporate welfare and it all starts with the contributions that companies make to the politicians.

The money trail starts at the New York Board of Elections website where you can put in Walter's name and see who he donated to over the years and who the contractors that have done business with Walter have donated to over the years as well. Walter was a smart man - he knew how to play the game, he knew who he needed to be close to politically speaking. Without the grant funding the NYSW has received over the years it's probably the railroad would have turned into a snowmobile trail long ago. I'm not a big fan of the process when it comes to companies that are flush with capital and don't need the money. Smaller companies (i.e., shortline railroads) should see a piece of the pie because they area vital part of the state's transportation network and they couldn't afford the capital expenditures on their own. We drive on our streets and highways for free (well, there's a tax in the fuel we buy)... the railroads also pay their taxes too and historically they didn't receive anything.

But there was some bad decision making along the way where the cart was put before the horse when it came to OnTrack and much of that can be blamed on the politicians who were too shortsighted to see past the checks Walter wrote to them.

[Otto Vondrak]

I agree.

-otto-

[Mike S.]

Bottom line: That bridge prevented me from using the system. I took a day trip to syracuse from Buffalo with a family member. We took an Empire service both to and from syracuse. We went to armory square and then walked around from there. We would have taken the OnTrack right to armory square if it had met us at the station. Instead, we used a cab both to and from the station. Having that bridge would have meant so much more business for them.

[nessman]

If NYSW/OnTrack had to foot the bill for the bridge themselves, there's no way they'd break even on passenger train service and it would have to run at a loss (made up with public subsidy). Mass transit, by design, cannot exist without public subsidy. Amtrak is a perfect example.