Amtrak to Long Island: MTA agrees to explore

I don't see room for hourly service. Where would they find slots through the East River Tunnels in rush hour? Every Amtrak train would displace an existing LI train with a much greater capacity, crowded as it is with commuters originating at NYP. Maybe file this away until all the related Gateway work is completed and those who come after us can then take another look. Who knows -- maybe by then there won't be rush hours any more.

How many Amtrak trains through or originating at NYP don't already use a slot through the East River Tunnels at the start or end of their journey?

Put another way, if this changes a train's movement through the East River tunnels from a non-revenue to a revenue move, and if those tunnels are the capacity constraint, then this proposal only improves the utilization of those tunnels.

Pure fantasy, and I know this is going to get a ton of hate, but I think running some Empire Trains to Jamaica for a more direct JFK connect would be beneficial. Obviously not now with the current train configurations, but once the push-pull Airo sets come online and have the ability to change ends, and turn and burn rapidly.

I don't think Jamaica has a place to stash the Amtrak equipment between arrival and departure unless Tracks 4 and 5 could be used outside of rush hours. Also, only trains terminating at NYP could be extended to Jamaica, leaving lots of gaps in the hourly pattern. I can't help feeling that Amtrak trains destined to Jamaica would be pretty empty leaving NYP; the time taken up by the Jamaica round trip would be better spent in preparing the equipment to head back from NYP to Washington quickly.

Many Amtrak regionals that terminate at NYP are being scheduled to not use East River tunnels due to tunnel 1 scheduled to be refurbished due to SANDY. That is one reason ACS-64s now at both ends of regionals.

I was thinking specifically Empire Trains, since they're already going that direction. The Regionals already serve Newark Airport directly, I think it would be cool for Hudson Valley passengers to have easier access to JFK in a similar fashion.

Mr. Naugy, who has rails other than NYCTA, to JFK?

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2024 9:15 am A lengthy opinion piece on Amtrak to Long Island: PedestrianObservations.com

What does the author get right? Or do you disagree with the conclusion?

Intercity Trains and Long Island

Amtrak wants to extend three daily Northeast Corridor trains to Long Island. It’s a bad idea – for one, if the timetable can accommodate three daily trains, it can accommodate an hourly train – but beyond the frequency point, this is for fairly deep reasons, and it took me years of studying timetabling on the corridor to understand why. In short, the timetabling introduces too many points of failure, and meanwhile, the alternative of sending all trains that arrive in New York from Philadelphia and Washington onward to New Haven is appealing. To be clear, there are benefits to the Long Island routing, they’re just smaller than the operational costs; there’s a reason this post is notably not tagged “incompetence.”

The Northeast Corridor has asymmetric demand on its two halves. North of New York, it connects the city with Boston. But south of New York, it connects to both Philadelphia and Washington. As a result, the line can always expect to have more traffic south of New York than north of it; today, this difference is magnified by the lower average speed of the northern half, due to the slowness of the line in Connecticut. Today, many trains terminate in New York and don’t run farther north; in the last 20 years, Amtrak has also gone back and forth on whether some trains should divert north at New Haven and run to Springfield or whether such service should only be provided with shuttle trains with a timed connection. Extending service to Long Island is one way to resolve the asymmetry of demand.

Such an extension would stop at the major stattions on the LIRR Main Line. The most important is Jamaica, with a connection to JFK; then, in the suburbs, it would be interesting to stop at least at Mineola and Hicksville and probably also go as far as Ronkonkoma, the end of the line depicted on the map. Amtrak’s proposed service makes exactly these stops plus one, Deer Park between Hicksville and Ronkonkoma.
...

JS and Everyone - This Pedestrian Observations page was sent to me previously...Native Long Islander reply:

These so-called "experts" think as example that the Main Line between Floral Park and Hicksville should have
a fourth track in some manner through the recently-completed 10.1 mile Main Line Third Track Project area...

There is NO room for a fourth track on a majority of the route without taking outside properties and undoing
just-completed station construction on one side of the ROW...Any changes of this magnitude will not only cost
billions of dollars more...This will no doubt rile up again the NIMBY opposition that had delayed the Third Track
Project for decades until the "compromise" was reached eliminating the dangerous Main Line grade crossings
being the best example along with good political work under former NYS Governor Andrew Cuomo - who was
very good for infrastructure projects and improvements during his time in office...

With the increased LIRR service implemented just over one year ago the "Long Island Main Line Corridor"
(coining a name for the route) does NOT need any Amtrak service extension - and again what could be the
more lucrative route would be the Montauk Branch with LIRR stations Babylon, Patchogue, Westhampton,
Southampton, East Hampton and Montauk - experimental and seasonal at first - to see if riders will take
advantage of through NYS Empire Corridor service provided that a plan can be worked out with the LIRR...

NR and Everyone: The LIRR has frequent service between Penn Station and Jamaica that can be shown
by downloading the City Terminal Zone Penn Station-Jamaica Timetable...The lowest cost for this ride
is the $5 Off-Peak City Ticket (the only exception is AM Peak westbound between 6 AM and 10 AM and
eastbound between 4 PM and 8 PM weekdays when the $7 Peak City Ticket fare is in effect) valid only
on the day of sale prepaid (Ticket Office, TVM or LIRR Ticket App) before boarding...

As example a fare agreement between Amtrak and MTA for the LIRR to honor Amtrak tickets to Jamaica
for an extra fee could be studied for those connecting at NYP for JFK...

https://mta.info/agency/long-island-rai ... timetables
(City Terminal Zone-Manhattan Timetable)

The JFK Airtrain fare is $8.50 collected only at Jamaica Station and Howard Beach (NYC Subway A Train)
on entry and exit using Metrocards, OMNY cards and other payment cards and apps...
https://jfkairport.com/to-from-airport/air-train

RW: Amtrak trains that travel through East River Tunnels that originate/terminate at NYP are going to/from
Sunnyside Yard either to be "looped" or to enter the yard itself...With Line #2 being shut down for long term
maintenance there will be less moves to SSYD with the new push-pull service plan in effect...

On the subject of Amtrak trains terminating at Jamaica Station? My reply is NO - Not Necessary...
for what would be only an 11 mile extension with ample LIRR service already available...

MACTRAXX

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 8:30 am Mr. Naugy, who has rails other than NYCTA, to JFK?

The AirTrain has a direct connection with JFK from Jamaica. My line of thought was cutting out an additional seat for Empire Service riders that would want to fly out of JFK. I do know a lot of people along the route usually fly out of Albany, Bradley, or Westchester, but JFK opens up a slew of more direct and international flights (Bradley to Dublin, for example, is only seasonal).

For example, if I wanted to fly out of JFK instead of BDL or ALB like I usually do, I could catch the train in Rhinecliff, get off at Jamaica, and go direct to the AirTrain.

In order for me to take the train now I would have to travel RHI - NYP, catch LIRR to Jamaica, then take the AirTrain. (Or Metro-North Wassaic to GCT, LIRR to Jamaica).

Either way, running a few Empire Trains to connect direct with the AirTrain would cut out the LIRR transfer.

I stand enlightened, Mr. Naugy.

I only thought it connected with Duke Ellington's train at Howard Beach, which is where I once during '15 rode it to JFK.

I had no idea it also connected with the LIRR at Jamaica, but it seems like the other participants in this discussion did.

No worries Gil, I wasn't trying to come off as snobby when I posted that lol.

I've personally only been to JFK twice on a roundtrip to Disney with my grandparents about twenty years ago. Getting there my uncle dropped us off around 3AM, coming home my grandparents (both Bronx natives that transplanted decades prior) somehow remembered enough to get us home via the subway from Howard Beach back to GCT and eventually Dover Plains. I only remember it being late, I was tired, and it was my first real exposure to the NYCTA.

So long as we're swapping flight stories here (after all, aren't we discussing plane to train transfers?), mine was during '15 to visit with my Niece, who resided in the Bay Ridge area of Brooklyn. She said "oh just fly into JFK and take a cab". Well, even though my usual United had no service to JFK (and very limited today) I flew Jet Blue and took a taxicab to my hotel. Only problem, first I knew nothing of what an Outer Borough taxicab was, but I quickly learned when I got in the first one available which was Yellow ("can't take you; only Manhattan"). Well the Green ended up in a almost 2hr traffic jam and $70 meter and tip.

There HAS to be a better way, and "The Duke" and Airtrain on the return - even if Airtrain seemed a $$$ ripoff - proved to be the case.

Now to close more on subject, since KSWF has "never really taken off" as an intended fifth NY area airport, and KALB appears to have puddle jumpers (save of course charter flights for the NCAA women), I can see the need for Hudson Valley, especially East Shore, train to plane options. Even if you're able bodied, handling luggage (and kids) can be "sport".