Questions About AMTK From Newark Airport

Why was my comment removed?

Anyway as i stated, newark to airport rail link station is about 5-7 minutes depending on how they are routing trains in/out of newark penn at that specific date/time. You will likely have to travel to track 3/4 from track 1 or 2, which means going downstairs and back upstairs. There are stairs and escalators and i believe elevators for both areas. There are TVM's on track 3/4 platform as well as downstairs. Ticket window is also downstairs.

Good luck!

khecht: I didn't include Heathrow since I've never tried using a rail-plane connection there, I generally avoid that airport when I can for a variety of reasons. I also made a point of citing TLV, FRA, FCO, and GVA since I have experience using those connections (and also Schipol, which I left off my initial list but is one of the best connections in the world as far as I'm concerned).

George: Thanks for the reminder about Amsterdam.

Is Heathrow actually on the RR mainline or is it a stub of sorts? BWI is "only 10 minutes" away from Baltimore Penn, yet nearly every Regional stops there all day long. EWR is only 5-7 minutes from NWK but only a handful of trains make the station stop. Seems like there could be room for improvement there, and I'd like to think the "if they run it, they will come" approach can work here.

Is Heathrow actually on the RR mainline or is it a stub of sorts? BWI is "only 10 minutes" away from Baltimore Penn, yet nearly every Regional stops there all day long. EWR is only 5-7 minutes from NWK but only a handful of trains make the station stop. Seems like there could be room for improvement there, and I'd like to think the "if they run it, they will come" approach can work here.

I would say that Newark is more convenient than Heathrow (which I don't use as Gatwick is nicer). Heathrow is not on the mainline. It has a fast shuttle train to Paddington, which I have only tried when there was a cheap introductory offer. As I have said, to get to the main line one should take the Coach to Reading. There may eventually be a train to Reading, but only after a westward connection can be built from the Heathrow Express, or other existing line. There are plans for more rail links, especially to the third rail network south of London. I doubt if I will live to see them.

My wife and I travelled to Newark from Old Saybrook via an Amtrak Regional. We changed to the bus at Newark Penn and found that quite convenient. We are both rather cheapskates and found the monorail unnecessarily expensive.

But on arrival at Newark from London we did take the monorail to New York, for business there, using the NJT train. For going south I think I would take the bus to Newark Penn.

WMATAGMOAGH wrote:khecht: I didn't include Heathrow since I've never tried using a rail-plane connection there, I generally avoid that airport when I can for a variety of reasons. I also made a point of citing TLV, FRA, FCO, and GVA since I have experience using those connections (and also Schipol, which I left off my initial list but is one of the best connections in the world as far as I'm concerned).

Oh, don't get me wrong - LHR is one of my least favorite airports on the planet for a long list of reasons, the latest being the December snow debacle.

WMATAGMOAGH wrote:BWI is "only 10 minutes" away from Baltimore Penn, yet nearly every Regional stops there all day long. EWR is only 5-7 minutes from NWK but only a handful of trains make the station stop. Seems like there could be room for improvement there, and I'd like to think the "if they run it, they will come" approach can work here.

I tend to agree, and also because EWR has much more traffic and flight options (particularly internationally) than BWI. This comes at a price, with the constrained runway configuration causing problems in poor weather, the NE airspace congestion, but there is little denying that EWR is an important airport for the region and the US and it would be good to have more frequent rail connectivity beyond the limited Amtrak service and NJT NEC/NJCL service.

I think the issue may be in part that with Newark Penn so close, Amtrak trains lose running time both because of the additional stop and the lower speeds that would exist between the two stations, but this really isn't much different than what happens with BWI and Baltimore Penn, plus the elderly tunnels along the NEC surrounding Baltimore station. What is different is greater frequency of "competing" NJT service, which probably handles the majority of the NY-bound traffic thus rendering Amtrak in less demand for southbound service.

So why doesn't Amtrak not sell local fares between NYP, NWK, and EWR and/or only have trains continuing north of New York make the Newark Airport stop (though I don't know what that would do to the frequency issue I've highlighted). I'm not denying that there are good connections to New York, Newark, or other points within New Jersey, but beyond that, the options are not as good as they could be from there. I'll accept the reasoning you've stated about the proximity of the stations, but in that case, why didn't the PA extend PATH to the airport or the monorail to Newark Penn if they are so close and serve the most number of people possible?

I wish they would extend PATH to EWR and they've apparently studied it (http://www.panynj.gov/press-room/press- ... ine_id=544) but as far as I know it hasn't gone anywhere.

WMATAGMOAGH wrote:So why doesn't Amtrak not sell local fares between NYP, NWK, and EWR and/or only have trains continuing north of New York make the Newark Airport stop (though I don't know what that would do to the frequency issue I've highlighted). I'm not denying that there are good connections to New York, Newark, or other points within New Jersey, but beyond that, the options are not as good as they could be from there. I'll accept the reasoning you've stated about the proximity of the stations, but in that case, why didn't the PA extend PATH to the airport or the monorail to Newark Penn if they are so close and serve the most number of people possible?

Money. If they sold local fares, the train would fill up with people leaving NYP and getting off at NWK or EWR. Those are seats that cannot then cannot be sold to a passenger who is say going from NYP to WAS.

It would be a huge financial loss.

There is frequent NJT service from EWR to Newark Penn Station early in the morning and the fare is $8.25. The monorail to the train station connects from all the terminals at EWR. There is also frequent service to Metropark but the fare is a little more at $11.50. Depending on your connection to Washington, that could save you some time and the train would depart from the same platform at Metropark. In an ideal world you would catch the 6:03 local from EWR to Metropark and then train 181 to Washington, but customs and checked baggage might make that unlikely. The 6:40 local from EWR to Metropark would arrive at 6:56 and could connect to a costly Acela at 7:28 or 183 at 7:48. 183 would arrive in Washington 53 minutes after the Acela but would save a lot of $$$ on the fare. Even if you missed the 6:40, there would be a 6:50 and 7:03 local that would still get to Metropark in time to catch 183 or the Acela.

gprimr1 wrote:If they [Amtrak] sold local fares, the train would fill up with people leaving NYP and getting off at NWK or EWR. Those are seats that cannot then cannot be sold to a passenger who is say going from NYP to WAS.

If you want to ride NY to Newark, Amtrak will sell you a ticket, won't they? An expensive one?

timz wrote:

gprimr1 wrote:If they [Amtrak] sold local fares, the train would fill up with people leaving NYP and getting off at NWK or EWR. Those are seats that cannot then cannot be sold to a passenger who is say going from NYP to WAS.

If you want to ride NY to Newark, Amtrak will sell you a ticket, won't they? An expensive one?

yep, a very expensive 5 minutes at that...

hi55us wrote:

timz wrote:

gprimr1 wrote:If they [Amtrak] sold local fares, the train would fill up with people leaving NYP and getting off at NWK or EWR. Those are seats that cannot then cannot be sold to a passenger who is say going from NYP to WAS.

If you want to ride NY to Newark, Amtrak will sell you a ticket, won't they? An expensive one?

yep, a very expensive 5 minutes at that...

Exactly, it's not cost effective for Amtrak to sell seats for a 5 minute ride from their busiest train station in America, when they could be selling seats to PA, DE, MD or points beyond so they make the price disproportionate to the distance to encourage people to travel on NJT.

For a dollar 50 cents you can also take the 62 bus if you don't mind loud raucousing kids or people arguing about the fare. Takes about 25 minutes though. The Go 28 does not run frequently enough or it would be a viable non-rail alternative. Then you have to walk or connect via military park on the newark city subway even if the 28 ran more frequently.

Perhaps NJ transit should work with the PA to figure out how to have better airport terminal and rail link connecting service with newark penn station.

I could never understand the reason for Amtrak to stop at the airport. Some time ago, when Amtrak had a codeshare with Continental, there was that slim sliver for an excuse, but that stopped a while ago.

If you're getting off the plane and going to somewhere in NJ, you're going to take NJT. To NYC: also NJT, if you don't even end up flying into LGA or JFK in the first place. If you're going south of Trenton, you'll just fly into Philly.

You might thing that Amtrak might make sense if you need to go to Westchester; but why not just fly into White Plains in the first place? It has decent commercial service.

So, what am I missing. If you're flying into Newark and need to go somewhere, where exactly are you going where Amtrak would be the best option? I do believe I've seen folks getting on/off some train at the airport; and I'm dying to know who exactly they are, and does it really make sense to add to a train's schedule to make the airport stop, every day, for the benefit of their convenience?

mrsam wrote:I could never understand the reason for Amtrak to stop at the airport. Some time ago, when Amtrak had a codeshare with Continental, there was that slim sliver for an excuse, but that stopped a while ago.

The codeshare is still in effect: http://www.continental.com/web/en-US/co ... mtrak.aspx

Continental Airlines wrote:Continental Airlines and Amtrak have teamed up to provide the ultimate in seamless travel. Through an air/rail codeshare, Amtrak will provide connecting service on Regional and Keystone trains from Philadelphia, PA; Wilmington, DE; Stamford, CT and New Haven, CT to Newark International Airport and then on to anywhere Continental Airlines flies.

These four destinations make particular sense for Continental, since they both would involve a transfer from one service to another, and Amtrak has a considerably better travel time than NJT+SEPTA towards the south. Towards the north, the Amtrak advantage over NJT+subway+subway+MN is even more pronounced. Within New Jersey or to NYP though, you're right that it makes little sense to advertise a code share. Perhaps the code-share will go away once Continental and United fully merge, but it has advantages for even that combined company - they can essentially double their frequencies to EWR and to PHL by using Amtrak as the second leg.

I'll tell you why by giving an example...

There's an airline giving a SUPER low fare from London to EWR that my stepson might be taking. We're trying to find the cheapest way to get him back here for a few months. Now, we live in New Hampshire. One-way fares to Boston are prohibitive. We can save SO MUCH money by having him fly into EWR, it's worth it to take a few hours to drive him back to NH.

Now, if the flight comes in at a bad time and I do NOT want to drive through or around NYC, the idea of taking Amtrak from EWR to, say, New Haven - especially with a pocket-change fare (since I can't quote the number here due to admin rules) is appealing.

The fare to Newark was some FOUR HUNDRED dollars less than the fare to Boston, just to give you an idea of the incentive.

I might also do the same thing from EWR to Philadelphia for my daughter who lives down there.