• Pump Island Lot Size? (Al's Victory Service HO)

  • Discussion related to everything about model railroading, from layout design and planning, to reviews of related model tools and equipment. Discussion includes O, S, HO, N and Z, as well as narrow gauge topics. Also includes discussion of traditional "toy train" and "collector" topics such as Lionel, American Flyer, Marx, and others. Also includes discussion of outdoor garden railways and live steamers.
Discussion related to everything about model railroading, from layout design and planning, to reviews of related model tools and equipment. Discussion includes O, S, HO, N and Z, as well as narrow gauge topics. Also includes discussion of traditional "toy train" and "collector" topics such as Lionel, American Flyer, Marx, and others. Also includes discussion of outdoor garden railways and live steamers.

Moderators: 3rdrail, stilson4283, Otto Vondrak

  by Komachi
 
Okay, guys,

As I'm working out the size of the roads on the RF&L, I'm just currious as to what the reccomended size is for the lot for the pump island area for Walther's Al's Victory Service gas station?

Just wondering. I'm hashing it out right now, but I don't want to make it too cramped, or take up too much real estate unnecessarily.

Appreciate any thoughts/reccomendations you guys have on this.
  by Sir Ray
 
Without knowing the era or your planned configuration, here's my opinion
Looks like the kit comes with 2 pump islands.
If you plan to use both islands, are you going for the corner layout (the two pump islands at right angles to each other, each island facing a road? Are you going for 2 islands side-by-side, or are you going for 2 islands in a line (tandem)?

The pump islands should NOT block access to the repair bays (assuming you want to model working repair bays).
If there is an island in front of the repair bay, you should leave at least 1.5 the length (L) of an average sedan between the pump island (I'm using the long side of the island for all dimensions) and the bay doors (in the real world, this looks more like 2.5-3L, but selective compression, you know).

Otherwise, it looks like you can get away with 1.5 times the width (W) of an average sedan clear space on each side of the pump (so if you have 2 islands side-by-side, there would be 1.5W from the building to the first island, 3W from the first island to the second island, and 2W from the second island to the curb/sidewalk/road etc). For islands not in front of the bay doors, go w/ 1.5W - (like in a right-angle configuration - if you are going to have 2 islands). Oh, make sure you have at least 1.5L clear area from the end of an island to allow the vehicles to look like they can drive in and drive out without hitting anything.

There's always space around the building (but not necessarily much more than 3ft behind the building) to park a few cars - allow space for maybe 2W each side (in real life this is usually larger, but again selective compression - can be filled w/ skids, piles of junk, whatever, or set up to perform outdoor repairs). And don't forget a solid fence if any section of the station abuts residental property.

By the way, if you lay out the plan on paper, place the building and pumps on the plan, place some model vehicles on the plan to check clearances, you are legally allowed to push the model vehicles around and make engine rev noises for up to 2 minutes without being called out on it...
  by Komachi
 
Sir Ray wrote:Without knowing the era or your planned configuration, here's my opinion
Looks like the kit comes with 2 pump islands.
If you plan to use both islands, are you going for the corner layout (the two pump islands at right angles to each other, each island facing a road? Are you going for 2 islands side-by-side, or are you going for 2 islands in a line (tandem)?
No, I'm just going to have ONE pump island. This station (Bob's POP*) is in a small town, deep in the rich, agricultural land of Minnesota (otherwise known as "the sticks"). And, I'm doing the modern era for this layout.

This station is also located on the "T" intersection of a state highway and a town/county road where the gas station would be...

Agri-Business
================
MN HWY. 40
================
Gas____[ ]
Station_[ ]
_______[ ]

(Note: I had to put the underscores in the diogram to keep the lower leg of the "T" straight.)

Sir Ray wrote:The pump islands should NOT block access to the repair bays (assuming you want to model working repair bays).
If there is an island in front of the repair bay, you should leave at least 1.5 the length (L) of an average sedan between the pump island (I'm using the long side of the island for all dimensions) and the bay doors (in the real world, this looks more like 2.5-3L, but selective compression, you know).

Otherwise, it looks like you can get away with 1.5 times the width (W) of an average sedan clear space on each side of the pump (so if you have 2 islands side-by-side, there would be 1.5W from the building to the first island, 3W from the first island to the second island, and 2W from the second island to the curb/sidewalk/road etc). For islands not in front of the bay doors, go w/ 1.5W - (like in a right-angle configuration - if you are going to have 2 islands). Oh, make sure you have at least 1.5L clear area from the end of an island to allow the vehicles to look like they can drive in and drive out without hitting anything.

There's always space around the building (but not necessarily much more than 3ft behind the building) to park a few cars - allow space for maybe 2W each side (in real life this is usually larger, but again selective compression - can be filled w/ skids, piles of junk, whatever, or set up to perform outdoor repairs). And don't forget a solid fence if any section of the station abuts residental property.
Okay, those sound like good rules of thumb to follow. That also happens to be close to what I currently have laid out, but will "tweak" the current layout to work with your criteria. I was also going to put the fence up around the property, as I haven't decided if the station will abut residential properties or more commercial businesses (other than the grain elevator and/or other agri-businesses across the highway from the station).

Sir Ray wrote:By the way, if you lay out the plan on paper, place the building and pumps on the plan, place some model vehicles on the plan to check clearances, you are legally allowed to push the model vehicles around and make engine rev noises for up to 2 minutes without being called out on it...
Well, I am using the base of the pump island and the base for the gas station itself as a full-sized mockup for the scene. (I'm also using strips of cardboard to determine the layout of my streets. I also happen to be using a 90s-era Chevrolet Caprice, painted like a Minnesota State Highway Patrol cruiser, so what's the time limit on additional siren and radio noises? ;)


* Bob's POP was a real gas station that existed in my hometown of Preston, MN (actually, it was just down the street from the house, in which I grew up). It was owned, in succession, by two guys named Bob and the POP stands for "Preston Oil Products." I'll post a pic of it here in the next couple days, or so.
  by Sir Ray
 
Komachi wrote:No, I'm just going to have ONE pump island. This station (Bob's POP*) is in a small town, deep in the rich, agricultural land of Minnesota (otherwise known as "the sticks"). And, I'm doing the modern era for this layout.
Hmm, the rough estimates I gave were for space constrainted stations in urban/suburban areas, kind of the minimum distances I estimated (from images, experience, Bing views, some old books - I research fast) to allow the general driving public to pull in/out with a decent clearance margin - I would think stations in more rural/small towns (also Interstate 'Truck Stop' stations) would spread out more due to land being cheaper. More room to manuever mean less driver conflicts = more customer friendly (and makes life easier for a tow truck operator bringing a vehicle to the service bay areas). You may want to bump up those dimensions a bit if that's the case.

I also hope you have a more modern pump island than those that come with the kit - at least 1970s style Gas pumps if not anything more modern (Did Bob's POP have those old 1950s style gas pump in daily use?) - Actually, aren't all gasoline pumps in the US required to have vapor recovery systems nowadays? (Mabye that's just certain air quality catchment area, but since I live in the Northeast Corridor which is more or less one big catchment area, that's what I'm familiar with). Not sure if such systems could be retrofitted to those 1950s designs.
I also happen to be using a 90s-era Chevrolet Caprice, painted like a Minnesota State Highway Patrol cruiser, so what's the time limit on additional siren and radio noises? ;)
If you could do all 3 sounds simultaneously (engine, siren, radio) that would probably impress even your significant other, but otherwise use the 'Rule of the Traveling Wilburys' - "In Jersey Everything's legal, as long as you don't get caught"