SecaucusJunction wrote:Oh please... the Amtrak trains from the east to Chicago are overflowing and would continue to overflow even more with more capacity. The Broadway Limited could and should be restored with the purchase of more equipment. The Three Rivers was a joke and the lack of a dining car and good equipment was a great excuse to kill the train. Didnt that train even run with Horizon coach cars? The fact that Newark, Trenton, Philadelphia and Harrisburg now run without one daily train to Chicago is an abomination. This would be a HUGE market if Amtrak had any service running there.
Living in NJ, I would welcome a train to Chicago that didn't leave at 9pm at night and wasn't known as the "Late for Sure Limited". The one train from Chicago to NYC per day should NOT be a "clean up" train. A better departure time from Chicago and a late morning or noon arrival to the east coast would have plenty of New Yorkers flocking to ride the train coming from Chicago and all points west.
Amtak also has 50 Viewliners, not 25 with about 39 running at any given time.
Agreed. The facts for the popularity of the Three Rivers perhaps best was found in its Viewliner sleeper service. Perhaps the coaches were not as full as the Viewliner sleeper, which sort of gives rise to the question – should this train have had more Viewliner sleepers than coaches and sort of go after the high-end revenue.
It's funny that as much as Amtrak wanted to kill the Three Rivers, its Viewliner sleeper was often sold out months in advance - nearly similar to the Cardinal's lone Viewliner sleeper.
The Three Rivers was the "clean-up" train out of Chicago, but I would often book on this train just to play it safe with long distance western long haul connections. The Three Rivers did do its best to offer meals in the Horizon dinette for sleeping car passengers. They did put their best foot forward in this respect, I will admit. It sort of was the pre-cursor to the “Amfleet Diner Lite.”
Anyway, often when a "misconnect" occurred, people were accommodated in coach rather than in a sleeper on the Three Rivers, even though the train they were supposed to connect with was in a sleeper – roomette or bedroom. But those who wanted a sleeper and wouldn’t settle for coach on misconnects were often out of luck or Amtrak did bend to put them up in a hotel and then try to re-book them on a sleeper to the East Coast the following day. So often, like the Lake Shore Limited, the train’s Viewliners were full before considering any “misconnects” and trying to serve as a “clean-up” train. A true “clean-up train” from Chicago would likely offer an extra coach or Viewliner to meet demand.
Amtrak is definitely missing out by not having a daily train to Chicago directly serving points in NJ, Philly and Harrisburg. Harrisburg had a LOT of Amish passengers heading to Chicago. I don’t see as many Amish people riding the Capitol Limited or Lake Shore Limited that I saw on the Three Rivers.
The tri-weekly Cardinal just doesn’t cut it. And again, the eastbound Three Rivers still allowed for passengers to connect to southbound trains on the NEC, which can’t be done with the Lake Shore’s schedule arrival into NYC. Particularly, it could still try to make a Florida connection with the Silver Meteor (when the Meteor departed NYC at 7:00 p.m.) and even with trains to the tidewater region of Virginia (often satisfying those who missed the Capitol Limited out of Chicago etc.).
If anything, the Three Rivers would make it on a packed Viewliner sleeper – it was heavily patronized. I often took a day room on the Viewliner from NYC to Pittsburgh (or even Harrisburg when Keystone trains had less frequency to Harrisburg and the only thing left was a sleeper on the Three Rivers. And without a doubt, as I got off the Three Rivers or on it at Pittsburgh, my room was “turned” for passengers boarding or de-boarding in Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh was a huge turnover point on the Three Rivers, and an extra coach was often carried along and opened up just to accommodate passengers between Pittsburgh and NYC. The Three Rivers offered a great passenger friendly overnight schedule from Chicago to Pittsburgh, and I remember many sleeping car passengers taking advantage of such.
I recall the coaches sometimes being Horizons on the Three Rivers (for short-haul passengers), but Amfleet II for long-haul passengers. Then when the Pennsylvanian was truncated to become just a Pittsburgh-NYC train once again, the Three Rivers was able to operate with more Amfleet II’s, but still the Horizon dinette. And towards the end of its service, it was a refurbished Horizon dinette. Again, Amtrak tried their best with food service aboard the Three Rivers, in the absence of a full service Heritage Diner.
What did Amtrak do with the Broadway’s Heritage Diners – I don’t know. Likely Amtrak suffered a setback and had to retire the ole Broadway Heritage Diners and use them as parts to keep the other ones going. Short-sighted likely. And the Horizon Dinette, like the operation of the Cardinal, was the only “lounge” area for the train as well.
I would love to see a reincarnated Broadway Limited (as the premiere NYC-Chicago train operating on the schedule I put forth above). Amtrak could then think about scheduling the Lake Shore Limited a little differently. Or even vice versa, as that may make more sense.
Perhaps Amtrak should think about loading three Viewliners on each of the reincarnated Broadway Limited’s train set, that of course would include a Viewliner Diner and some sort of descent lounge car – other than an Amfleet Café car. Amtrak would just have to monitor demand between sleeper space among the Lake Shore Limited and reincarnated Broadway Limited.
With an order of Viewliners coming, Amtrak could actually pull this off, rather than my other suggestion of sort of making the Capitol Limited into an Empire Builder model, where it would “split” or “combine” at Pittsburgh with one section going to Harrisburg and the other to Washington DC, yet combined west of Pittsburgh. At Harrisburg, passengers could easily do a “cross the platform change” to a regular or dedicated “Keystone corridor train.” In this scenario, Amtrak would likely have to assign two Superliner coaches, a Superliner sleeper, and Superliner Sightseer Lounge on the Pittsburgh-Harrisburg section. And perhaps a Superliner Sightseer Lounge could be kept at Pittsburgh so both sections could have a Superliner Sightseer Lounge and also reduce the requirement for having a Superliner Sightseer Lounge. Moreover, if scheduled properly, the Superliner section from Pittsburgh-Harrisburg could do a same day turn at Harrisburg, to further reduce equipment requirements. Thus such a train would need 4 Superliner coaches, one Superliner Sightseer Lounge (removed/added at Pittsburgh during the split/combo) and two Superliner Sleepers. I would think Amtrak could find these Superliner cars – especially with overhauls being done at Beech Grove.
The single level fully reincarnated Broadway Limited would likely have to wait for the arrival of the Viewliner II’s. However, I won't hold my breath on such a restoration. But knowing one Viewliner sleeper was sold out way in advance, what would another Viewliner on this rain do for it, or another etc. Via Rail Canada operates more sleepers than coaches on it overnight trains. Somehow there is a formula for success with this model, with certain trains!
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