Detector Revisions

While I was out this morning into the afternoon, the Coldwater detector was changed out so now it says "CSX Coldwater New, York..."

And as for the Churchville,NY Detector only on track 1 it was acting up saying that the 1st and 2nd axles where hotbox's and no train would be in the area (that I could see) , and claiming the train was exceeding 250+ Mile Per Hour. Q119 passed on Track 2 and nothing was wrong with them but when they had cleared the detector had repeated the exact same message giving out hotbox's on track one. I bet within the week CSX will be in front of Churchville as well.

Just Thought I'd Share,
Dan

The maintainer was working on the Churchville detector this morning, it sounded off with the tests at least twice that I heard. Your probably correct that it will be changed soon.

Yes, It went off twice first with a "*Beep* *Beep* *Beep* Track 1 *Beep* *Beep*" and then did it's usual ".....Churchville , New York , Track 1...1st Hotbox axle one north side...." out of the blue and then once Q119 passed Churchville right after the detector went off normally for them it repeated the other transmission

It's a shame to see some of the last pieces of Conrail History removed, but we all saw it coming.

Dan

Every time I've heard the maintainer testing it, it always rambles off a speed of 255 MPH. And, generally speaking, if it gives more than one hit for a train, it's almost always a maintainer working on it or the detector flat-out screwing up.

Conrail4evr wrote:Every time I've heard the maintainer testing it, it always rambles off a speed of 255 MPH. And, generally speaking, if it gives more than one hit for a train, it's almost always a maintainer working on it or the detector flat-out screwing up.

churchville detector always gives everything because it is screwed up. i have been hearing. churchville ny track 1 no defects total axle count 36 100 train speed 60mpr draging equipment 60th axle left and right side high car 50th axle left side hot box 40th axle right side over.

Conrail4evr wrote:Every time I've heard the maintainer testing it, it always rambles off a speed of 255 MPH. And, generally speaking, if it gives more than one hit for a train, it's almost always a maintainer working on it or the detector flat-out screwing up.

You are on to 2 clues to a detector test. The speed 255 is an indication of a test message or, rarely, a malfunction.

While you can have legitimate hits on multiple axles, a readout on 3 consecutive axles with one both sides, one right side and one left side is very likely a hot box simulator on a car or locomotive. Conrail had that device on some locomotives and on Rail Analyzer Car CR-22. I don't know what CSX uses now.

clearblock wrote: While you can have legitimate hits on multiple axles, a readout on 3 consecutive axles with one both sides, one right side and one left side is very likely a hot box simulator on a car or locomotive. Conrail had that device on some locomotives and on Rail Analyzer Car CR-22. I don't know what CSX uses now.

Churchville has given false readings as such before. A few months ago, I heard Q157 get hit for hotboxes on axles 4, 5, and 6 on the North side (which was obviously bogus, as the crew confirmed). I've only heard a few that aren't obviously malfunctions like that (IE a random hotbox halfway through the train), and out of all the alarms I've ever heard for a train, only one has actually been a genuine defect which required attention (which was a low hanging airhose).

As for CSX's version of the CR-22, they have a geometry car that tests both the tracks and the detectors (if I recall correctly, it gave two hotbox alarms and a dragging equipment alarm). One of the specific alarms I heard them testing, and really can't figure out what it means, was a hotbox on "North End South Side". If someone could clarify this specific alarm, I'd appreciate it.

Nick, I think the detector is actually saying "North AND South side" again verifying the detectors parameters are functioning. And yes, detectors do malfunction as with any man made device. I have in the past received no defects from a detector and 2 miles away get stopped by a maintainer who observes a car with smoking wheels. Then discovering all 4 xls brakes were stuck and welding themselves to the wheels. Nothing better than human eyes and ears watching a passing train.

Just an FYI. I happended to notice the other day that the Kirkville detector still annouces "Conrail" at the begining of it's transmission.

roadster wrote:Just an FYI. I happended to notice the other day that the Kirkville detector still annouces "Conrail" at the begining of it's transmission.

just track four.

I too occasionally pick up a “zero-zero” axle counts and train speeds of “2-5-5”. Never actually seen one however - with zero axles and aircraft-type speeds such movements are difficult to observe(!)

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A couple detector questions for the experts:

1 – At what point on a passing a train does the detector calculate train speed? First axle, last axle, average of all axles, or ??? Obviously a long train accelerating or braking over a detector may undergo a change in speed of 20 mph or more while rolling across the detector.

2 – Based on longtime observations of the Coldwater detector (my workday commute takes me over the grade crossing at the detector twice daily…) it seems there is a minimum train speed below which the detector will not report speed. I’ve witnessed several slow moving trains (weed spray train, tie drops, light engine creeping along with a wheel flat, etc.) where the detector reported the axle count normally but ended the transmission without reporting a train speed. Is there a minimum reporting speed, and if so what is it?

Thanks! ...FB

Many detectors are speed sensitive. I'm assuming that the older they are, the more likely they are to be speed sensitive.

As for the minimum speed 15/20 seems to crop up alot in communitcation.

My favorite was the Middlesex detector in New Jersey on the Lehigh line...

Crusing along at 40mph, it read off "Train Speed 4-8" It had a REAL funky speed detector. They'd get it fixed for a couple weeks and it'd go out of calibration again. It was also famous for giving odd-axle counts... as in not even.

The high car detector at the east end of Rutherford yard would frequently get into a recursive loop.... "NS Detector, milepost 105.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 etc..." wouldn't stop until the maintainer got out there and rebooted it.

Some newer detectors (such as Batavia) will say outright "Train Too Slow" - this happens a lot when Westbounds are exiting the siding at Batavia.

On another note, I know CSX was very adamant on removing the "Conrail" part from detector transmissions - when are we going to start hearing "CSX", or are they just going the cheap route? After all, I do believe it is an FCC violation for not identifying the railroad at the beginning of a transmission...not that CSX cares.

All of the reprogramed detectors do say CSX, however, It was recorded poorly and you mostly only hear "X" at the begining of the transmission. Syracuse Detector sounds like it say's "Sex" with only the S and X briefly audible.

hotbox2000 wrote:I do believe it is an FCC violation for not identifying the railroad at the beginning of a transmission...not that CSX cares.

Yeah. According to a buddy who’s big into VHF radio, 2-way operators must announce their station’s FCC designated call sign either by voice or international code every so many minutes.

Railroads (and I’m sure others…) are exempted from this requirement so long as the name of the entity operating the station is broadcast at the beginning of each series of 2-way exchanges. Thus detectors preceed their spiel with “CSX” then the location. Or in the case of the dispatcher and mobile units in the field, radio exchanges will begin with words to the effect “CSX NF dispatcher Selkirk”, or similar.

roadster wrote:All of the reprogrammed detectors do say CSX, however, It was recorded poorly and you mostly only hear "X" at the begining of the transmission. Syracuse Detector sounds like it say's "Sex" with only the S and X briefly audible.

Yup - the Coldwater detector’s preamble also sounds a lot like “sex”. (Shortly after the announcement was changed from "Conrail" this prompted my wife to casually remark “uhhhh…what exactly goes on inside that little brown building anyway?!”)