New Haven Line: one-seat ride to Secaucus for football games

Yes, but we're not talking about the larger picture right now. Let's try to keep this on topic or it will just be another exercise in New York metro area railroad fantasy futility, which will get this thread locked.

Amtrak still has to approve all of this since a good portion of it will take place over their tracks. NJT and MNRR seem on board, but I'm interested in Amtrak's take on things.

Several posts removed by moderator due to inappropriate content. FAIR WARNING - IF IT KEEPS UP THIS THREAD WILL BE LOCKED.

Kevin

The topic is about spending money on service which is not needed. Most people going to Giants and Jet games are either from NJ, LI, or the city itself. Dutch the biggest employers in CT are the 2 Casinos. There employees are from privliged.

Swedish Meatball wrote:The topic is about spending money on service which is not needed. Most people going to Giants and Jet games are either from NJ, LI, or the city itself. Dutch the biggest employers in CT are the 2 Casinos. There employees are from privliged.

The biggest draw to the meadowlands is LI and NJ? Can you back that up? I'd feel pretty confident in saying that the Westchester and CT add a fair portion. Also, I don't think that casino workers face the same kind of traffic that football fans to when going to the game.

NJ and LI draw pretty good to the meadowlands. Remember the Jets used to play in Shea and their training camp is in LI, so they have a strong fan base out there. I do question however, how many people from CT go to the meadowlands. Once you're into New Haven you're getting into Patriot's territory, so there's less of a draw for Jets & Giants.

Evidently the professional staffs of the agencies have done some market research and produced a product that their effors say will make some kind of sense and some kind of dollars. If they all sat around doing nothing about new products and services, then you all should complain.

Will NJT's New York extra lists have to qualify to New Rochelle?

Will Metro-North's extra lists have to qualify to New York Penn?

Will new extra lists be created at these agencies?

I think someone let the cat out of the bag waaayyyyy too early. The leadership from the various unions involved, as well a a slew of labor relations employees, now have to contend with a slew of political issues.

And another thing...

How will MN deal with the chronic door safety issues on NJT equipment? I may be wrong, but I get the impression that MN is far more strict about running on door bypass than is NJT.

They strickt are on MN, a train can not leave a terminal unless about 5 different rules are met for door safety, operating in door bypass is a no no unless it happens enroute and even then 4 rules remain in effect one of which is for crew to check each and every door after any stop.

as for qualification any crew working out of base thats gone protect these jobs has to qualify, not only extra list but also relief day list. as its carriers responcibility to make sure all crews are qualified for work that terminal protects.

Aren't we as railfans getting a little ahead of things? I am sure that operating rules, union contracts, interagency manangement, equipment, technical things, et. al. will be taken care of when and if this service, or any service like it, is ever implimented? Nothing is cast in stone, and so rules, traffic agreements, can all be negotiated and changed. Equipment needs and uses will also be taken care of in due time. This is a marketing idea, and a good one at that. If it has been, or if it is, well thought out and planned, the the long run, it will work. If it is seat of the pants talk with no real work going into it, it will not work.

You know, after reading over 5 pages of commentary, I'll put my 2 cents plain into the fray:


Kudos to Metro-North for thinking literally out of the box!

Details, details, details - equipment/unions/routes/amenities. What a good executive would say to his subbordinates - "WORK IT OUT! AND MAKE IT HAPPEN"

Yes - there are feelers going out 2 years in advance. WHY? Get feedback from the POLITICIANS, the UNIONS, the MANAGEMENT, the PRESS [hello - generate some enthusiasm].

This is not your [grand]fathers Oldsmobile [er-railroad] [sorry for the mixed-metaphors]. Things take time & there is no unified military management structure to oversee sporting events as when the Pennsy organized the Army-Navy games at Soldier field, or the New Haven Yale-Harvard rowing contests on the Thames River.

Then again, a long-term viable business is not a one-product entity. To paraphrase the late Senator Dirkson from Illinois "a nickle here, a nickle there - soon you got a million bucks" {OK,OK I forgot the quote, but you get the idea}. You have to reach out & create your market. To wit: MNCR advertises specials & runs other special trains to different destinations within their area - why not cross the river & serve the far west????

It is interesting to hear what the fans and professionals who post have to say, and, I'm certain that if MNCR is on the ball, they will be plugged into this forum.

But, there is the tendency to digress and get lost in the woods.

Yup! Good idea - keep them coming.

PS. Please keep the overall context when trying to flame this post [heh, heh]. I'm just a poor city boy who is more familiar with the 3rd avenue El and the 180th St IRT station.

Okay, so does anyone have anything new to add?

Passaic River Rat wrote:Will NJT's New York extra lists have to qualify to New Rochelle?

Will Metro-North's extra lists have to qualify to New York Penn?

Will new extra lists be created at these agencies?

I think someone let the cat out of the bag waaayyyyy too early. The leadership from the various unions involved, as well a a slew of labor relations employees, now have to contend with a slew of political issues.

My GUESS would be the train would be handed off to the other RRs crew at one point or another. NJT/Amtrak requires NJT T and E to be qualified to Harold Interlocking, which is around Sunnyside Yard. So either a location there where crews could swap, or maybe at NYP. I don't know the details of the track ownership and rules and union agreements, but are MNRR employees required to be certified on NORAC and Amtrak rules and SI? If not, maybe they would then just make NJT employees qualify up to Shell is it? (where Amtrak ownership ends and MN begins) and they would do a hand off there. That seems like it would be quickest and easiest, IF MNRR employees aren't qualified or deal with NORAC and Amtrak rules (I have no idea if they are or not)

I can't see how they would operate it without a crew swap somewhere. I can't see MNRR crews running it to Secaucus, or NJT crews running it from whereever they decide to start running it from. Unless the service is contracted out to Amtrak to run with their crews, but I can't see that going over real well with MN in particular, but more of an issue with NJT crews, at least on the NEC portion, (would Amtrak labor have rights to operate it?) as its not like the first portion is going onto NJT territory, it would be entirely on Amtrak property. Downstairs at SEC to Giants stadium would obviously be run by NJT crews.

Either way, its good to see some kind of out of the box thinking by someone at least!

My opinion is that again its just a one ticket ride.Think of all the track and equipment work that would have to be done in order to acheive this They would have to create a car that could have like a universal 3rd rail/pantograph or add and remove pantograph or change voltages...cab signal implementation and removal doesnt Amtrak have ASCES or something that MN doesnt have?They should really work with what they have before trying to expand....it would be a good plan but it would take too much work unless you just implement the ticket and even that would probably be alot of cash Amtrak and NJT contracts....They should have thought before they said 1 seat...Thats my 2 cents

IIRC, can't the ALP-46's go as far as New Haven?