by Train60
daybeers wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 6:30 pm $5.25m per car is insane.Alon Levy thinks so too.
"Connecticut Pays Double for Substandard Trains"
https://pedestrianobservations.com/2023 ... rd-trains/
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daybeers wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 6:30 pm $5.25m per car is insane.Alon Levy thinks so too.
Alstom and Connecticut recently announced an order for 60 unpowered coaches, to cost $315 million. The cost – $5.25 million per 25 meter long car – is about twice as high as the norm for powered cars (electric multiple units, or EMUs), and close to the cost of an electric locomotive in Europe. It goes without saying that top officials at the Connecticut Departmemarknt of Transportation (CTDOT) need to lose their jobs over this.
The frustrating thing is that unlike the construction costs of physical infrastructure, the acquisition costs of rolling stock were not traditionally at a premium in the United States. Metro-North’s EMUs, the M8s, were acquired in 2006 for $760.3 million covering 300 cars (see PDF-p. 16); a subsequent order in 2013 for the LIRR and Metro-North was $1.83 billion for 676 cars. But then over the 2010s, the MTA’s commuter railways lost their ability to procure rolling stock at such cost. The $5.25 million/car cost is not even an artifact of recent inflation – the cost explosion was visible already on the eve of corona.
It appears that some of the trains are on their way to the fully wired Penn Station Access project, expanding Metro-North service to Penn Station via the line currently used only by Amtrak (today, Metro-North only serves Grand Central). The excuse I’ve heard is that it’s happening too fast for Metro-North or CTDOT to order proper EMUs. In reality, Penn Station Access has been under construction and previously under design for many years, and the regular replacement of the rolling stock on the other lines is also known well in advance.
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Asked Why Connecticut Pays Double For $315M Rail Cars, CTDOT Offers No Answer
HARTFORD – Connecticut’s announcement earlier this month that it is buying 60 new rail cars expected to arrive in 2026 touted spacious two-by-two seats, foldable tables, reliable Wi-Fi, and charging ports.
The new rail cars for the Hartford Line and New Haven Line branches, if you ask the Connecticut Department of Transportation, are delivering the amenities that customers want.
But if you ask Alon Levy what stood out about the deal, it was the price tag: $315 million for 60 un-powered coach cars built by Alstom. The well-known transit writer and author of the blog Pedestrian Observations has been a frequent critic of American approaches to rail investment.
At a cost of $5.25 million per 25-meter car, the un-powered coaches are about twice the cost of electric powered cars in Europe, said Levy.
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ConstanceR46 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 05, 2023 5:54 am I'm still not sure why they didn't partner with MN for the shoreliner replacement, or even go for Siemens. And the 313 figure is also strange if they just want to equip the branches and cdot commuter railThat's one way keep costs down, partner with other agencies, to do mass purchases.
ST Saint wrote: ↑Thu Aug 10, 2023 9:41 am I'm sure we'll know more later on, but they do look suspiciously close to Bombardier M7 shells, so I have to wonder if they are mostly based off that from the rendering.Alstom==Bombardier, M7 blueprints. Does anyone know if Kawasaki M8s and M9s share ANY parts, windows, door motors, PA/CIS electronics, trucks, traction electronics (I think all M7-M9s are Mitsubishi, parts compatible traction?) plastic moldings/screw holes/wire connectors, driver console gauges, cast and milled steel structural steel members with M7s, or the M8s and M9s are clean slate, no spare parts compatibility with M7s?
ConstanceR46 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 6:44 pm It's an interesting choice to get 313, but utterly strange as to why they're going with single-levels of a custom-"tailored" design. In general i kinda was on the team that single-levels were on the way out - perhaps these "custom" cars are an intent to launch a competitor on the regional market for the Siemens sets?Wheelchair NGOs are extra active in the NYC area, if CT/MN/MTA buys ML cars, motorized wheelchair protesters will picket infront (or in) of Hartford, and tell the riot police the battery in their wheelchair is dead when the police say they are under arrest for failure to disperse. See https://twitter.com/NationalADAPT/media
NH2060 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 12:08 am.Wrong Nippon Sharyo DMU FRA/Cali/Toronto. But CT Rail wants their SLE/Springfield to NY Penn, then thru run no transfers, to Harrisburg dreams. DMUs can never go into GCT/NY Penn. Explains the 2x2 seating, this fleet is long haul, not MTA spec high density commuter. Conference tables for example, NY MTA would never in a million years have tables in their rolling stock, and would rip out the tables first thing, if its 2nd hand coaches.
2. No one is making DMUs compatible with high level platforms and even so they don’t allow for fleet flexibility vs engines and coaches.