Siemens Venture Single Level Cars for CA/IL/Midwest

mdvle wrote: It's a question of the trade offs between increased reliability vs less flexibility.

Yes, fixed connections allows for better connections between cars and open vestibules but you are also now increasing how much of a train gets taken out of service for repair.

It's a box with wheels and seats. It shouldn't need to be OOS for repair very often.

You also lose flexibility in sizing a train for passenger numbers.

You don't need to be so granular - the small additional cost in wear/tear/fuel is likely lower than the cost of micromanaging train length.

Europe, given their generally very frequent service has moved away from modifying formations both due to time and cost and with the knowledge that while customers may not be happy if a short train shows up another train will be along soon.

Plenty of trains join/part en route in Europe, still. Nevermind power changes at the border. But most European EMU formations are more than 2 cars (4 seems to be the sweet spot), whereas in the US you still have agencies *cough* SEPTA*cough* buying single cars, and none have ventured past married pairs.

Nasadowsk wrote:You still have agencies *cough* SEPTA*cough* buying single cars, and none have ventured past married pairs.

MNCR/ConnDOT M-4/M-6 triplet sets come to mind.

R36 Combine Coach wrote:

Nasadowsk wrote:You still have agencies *cough* SEPTA*cough* buying single cars, and none have ventured past married pairs.

MNCR/ConnDOT M-4/M-6 triplet sets come to mind.

Not FRA-rated cars, but the WMATA 7000s are quads.

If we put our heads to it, we should be able to design a coupler system that has the advantages of the semi-permanent coupler but can be easily and rapidly connected. Amtrak trains only connect to others during rescue or when hauling private cars, so a universal coupler that can be extended or an adapter could be used.

Having been on the Brightline trains, I can say that having semi-permanently attached trainsets is really the only way to go. The benefits are: ADA compliance for full train access, much less noise inside the car, safer to walk between cars, improved climate control, and as others have pointed out there are fewer things to go wrong, such as cabling. This also forces the operator to step up preventative maintenance practises. The downside: not as easy to modify train consists, single car failure requires the whole trainset to return to shop.

However, if Amtrak were to actually do what Brightline has done (enter into a 30 year maintanence service contract with Siemens or whoever), then the MTBF of individual train cars should be very acceptable and would not impact normal operations. But, Amtrak being Amtrak, I have little hope that they would actually do the right thing. At least California DOT gets it. IDOT and the midwest don't, at least not yet. Although most of the rest of the world understands the benefits of integrated trainsets.

The whole idea of loose car passenger trains and having defined front (locomotive always up front) and rear ends of a train is really backwards for what today's traveller expects. Why not have have a locomotive at each end, or at least a cab car and locomotive? Most long distance trains should have two locomotives anyways. How many times has an Amtrak train had some issue on the road and it required a long backup move at restricted speed? And how many times a year does the actual consist of the train really change to make loose car trains worthwhile? To me, the benefits of having trainsets such as what Brightline is operating are obvious.

I'm glad to hear you had a good experience on the Brightline. However, it seems a little short-sighted to proclaim that IDOT doesn't understand something when we don't know the basis behind their decisions. It could be a matter of increased flexibility, to expand and contract trainsets based on demand. Amtrak frequently runs longer and more frequent services during the holiday season, and with an entire trainset of semi-permanently coupled cars, it would take longer to build longer trainsets quickly.

Consist changes: They happen more often than one might think, depending on when they have inspections, are bad-ordered or need repairs, etc.

Questions about cab cars are answered in part here.

@WesternNation I understand seasonal changes, which would occur perhaps several times a year. Or does Amtrak change consists daily? How much extra work would that be to break apart an integrated trainset versus loose car train four times a year ? And if the integrated trainset is better maintained I suspect that switching out cars would occur less frequently year round compared to a loose car train.

Another thought, if flexibility in train length is ao important, why would Brightline and California choose to keep the same consist year round? What do they know about overall efficiencies of operation versus seasonal demand changes that requires adding a car or two for a period of time? I suspect the added reliability due to increased maintanence drives the decision in part. Operating integrated trainsets forces the operator to perform at a higher standard, in my opinion. Isn't one difference between California and the midwest is that Amtrak is responsible for maintaining the midwest rolling stock fleet whereas in California they do not plan on relying on Amtrak?

Production confirmed underway as of April 6, 2018.

bostontrainguy wrote:

gokeefe wrote:I am trying to figure out the operational advantage of semi- permanent coupling ... Not sure why this was done ...

Open pass-through vestibules?

Experienced this on the Thameslink from King's Cross to Gatwick. It was kind of interesting being able to see the entire length of the train.

... as well as enhancing passenger safety.

"IF" Siemens can maintain their delivery history then maybe some train sets might get delivered early ?

They started construction in April ... There's a pretty decent chance that one of them is finished already ...

It's over for NS:

https://www.railjournal.com/index.php/n ... =000%C2%A0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That's the problem with pop-up manufacturing: the pop-down.