Brightline (All Aboard Florida) Orlando - Miami FL FEC fka Virgin Rail

With Tri-Rail as an option who on earth WOULD take Brightline only between Ft. Lauderdale and West Palm Beach? It made no sense to have service start up between those two points. Throw in service to MiamiCentral -located right in the heart of downtown Miami compared to the Miami Airport station which is 5 miles from downtown- and you just watch those trains fill up.

NH2060 wrote:With Tri-Rail as an option who on earth WOULD take Brightline only between Ft. Lauderdale and West Palm Beach? It made no sense to have service start up between those two points. Throw in service to MiamiCentral -located right in the heart of downtown Miami compared to the Miami Airport station which is 5 miles from downtown- and you just watch those trains fill up.

AAF did not initially plan it that way. Due to the Miami station taking much longer than anticipated to open, they wanted to run WPB to FTL as a soft opening in order to work out any startup issues and to use it to train employees. Miami is the actual grand opening for Brightline or so I have been told. I think it is entirely possible to see close to 1 million riders in the first 12 months of full Miami to WPB service. Once Orlando begins that number could easily double.

I am getting tired of the same person quoting Disneyland when it comes to Brightline. Brightline is the first private attempt at intercity passenger service in the US in a long, long time. It is a very good chance of high success once it gets going. It needs our full support and not somebody referring to it in a Disney type fashion. It runs and will run on one of the best equipped railroad lines in the entire US on a railroad that will fully cooperate with it. It is not intended to compete with Tri-Rail which is a commuter line and does a good job with its commuters and short haul passengers. My guess is that Brightline will be running to Orlando before most anything else gets started anywhere in the US. Brightline is a very positive development in a most unlikely situation, it deserves our support and not being downgraded to a Disney affair by only one person on here at least so far.
I might not live long enough to ride it to Orlando but if I do you can bet I will ride it and fully support it.
Noel Weaver

Just got the new Trains magazine. Big article on Brightline showing that the Orlando station is pretty much already done. They are making incredible progress especially compared to the usual pace of such projects (e.g., MBTA Greenline extension).

Railpace also has an article in their May issue although I haven't had a chance to read it as yet.
Noel Weaver Sent

The Orlando station was built in combination with the Orlando Airport’s new South Terminal. Archer Western construction crews moved in earlier this year, and construction should begin sometime this summer. In fact, they may have already started some utility work.

I will be using the new parking garage C at MCO in two weeks when I fly out, so I will check out the adjacent ITF and see if any earthwork is being done at the maintenance facility site just southwest of there. Last time I was at the ITF in February there was no obvious new work done since my last visit in December. I did spot the location for the entrance to the Brightline station on level 5 however. In the Trains article, Bob Johnston was correct in saying the ITF feels like one is entering a cathedral, with its soaring ceilings and lots of glass.

Having just read the feature in Railpace all I can say is superb job well written and great photos too.
Noel Weaver

Mr. Weaver et al, again every time I post material around here suggesting skepticism of the AAF initiative, some here think I'm passing around videos of my whacking baby seals at a PETA convention!

For the record, I am not opposed to the AAF initiative, I am just skeptical of its financial viability,

I have to commend them for being able to squash the mindless opposition particularly from the Treasure Coast jurisdictions, but considering how passenger train initiatives have been shelved account Bennie the Bat, Woodsy Owl, Tuffy the Turtle, and who knows who else. I have never suggested that any fault beyond "being there" can be attributed to the fatalities that have occurred arising from AAF operations, but the fact remains that until such time that AAF provides meaningful transportation beyond "Disneyland rides on the cheap", some party perceiving injury could assert the legal Public Nuisance standard.

Now will commencing service Miami-West Palm start to generate meaningful service used by passengers for purposes other than a joyride and paying a "market rate" fare ($50 Coach; $65 Business each way is "market" to me) to ride? I'm certain that ridership will substantially increase and further increase as Miami Central and even into Overtown (immediately West of MCS) is developed. Will this be sufficient to make the venture profitable? We will never know, as privately held AAF is not required to make public disclosure of anything.

Now to build out to McCoy; while I think the latest challenge from CARE regarding propriety of AAF accessing Private Activity Bonds is without foundation, there is no implicit guarantee of payment by any party beyond the issuer. A major bond rating agency, Fitch, has determined that any issue by AAF is deemed "not of investment grade", or otherwise known as "junk". The debt service on these bonds could well be in excess of what was allowed for in their Business Plan.

Ridership, profitability, again, short of tapping the public trough for assistance, we'll never know. We definitely will never know to what extent AAF has contributed to both occupancy and rental rates at Miami Central and any other holdings FECI has or contemplates in any of the Tri-County Gold Coast areas.

BRIGHTLINE TO COVER COSTS OF RAIL CROSSING MAINTENANCE IN SELECTED COUNTIES: Officials with All Aboard Florida Brightline have agreed to cover the costs of rail crossing maintenance in those counties that have not shown opposition to the rail line. Counties that have opposed the service, such as with lawsuits to stop the service, the company will not cover the costs. [Rail Passengers Assn]

Gilbert B Norman wrote:...the fact remains that until such time that AAF provides meaningful transportation beyond "Disneyland rides on the cheap", some party perceiving injury could assert the legal Public Nuisance standard.

You keep saying this. It isn't true. There is no "public nuisance" law that would empower a local judge to shut down ONE of the services offered by a railroad company. Federal law, as you know very well, takes precedence in the case of railroads.

Furthermore, there is no relevant legal standard for "meaningful" transportation. Brightline is in the business of operating passenger trains. Therefore this is meaningful to them.

Correct Mr. Ridgefield; I do.

If there is any controlling foundation within this legal definition of Public Nuisance, then some underemployed attorney could easily make a try at it.

Now you do raise an interesting point that Federal law overrides State. Possibly you have knowledge that I do not that there are no Federal "public nuisance" statutes.

I know I have been highly skeptical of the AAF initiative; but I have had two joyrides (well, one was to have Dinner at a Ruth's in WP) and found their product to be "superb". Now maybe with "market" fares (my guess: MCS-WP $50 Coach; $65 Business) and with passengers riding to get "from "Eh to Bee", they can stem what must be a "hemorrhage" long enough to see if they will be able, underwritten by "Junk Bonds", to build out to Orlando McCoy (with a OW fare of $95 Coach, $160 Business).

Now that Texas Central reached a partnership deal with Amtrak (likely for real estate acquisition purposes more than ticketing) I gotta ask if either Brightline or Amtrak would have anything to gain from a similar partnership? I could see some complementary if Brightline ever gets to Jacksonville but not much otherwise.

I doubt it would ever happen. The main reason is back in 2012, as part of not having STB oversight and to be considered an intra-state railroad, AAF promised the STB that they would not engage in cross ticketing with Amtrak. Second reason, and the more practical matter that would impact both Brightline and Texas Central, is that Amtrak OTP is poor. The two Amtrak LD trains that Brightline could conceivably cross ticket with do not have a good on-time performance record. It would be pointless to even try to guess what Brightline departure or arrival would match up with the expected arrival/departure time of the Amtrak train.

I am not sure why Texas Central is even making this agreement with Amtrak now at this stage. It seems more like a PR thing than something that adds anything of value to their project at this time. They should be focusing their efforts on the much more important issues they have that need to be resolved.

Gilbert B Norman wrote:Correct Mr. Ridgefield; I do.

If there is any controlling foundation within this legal definition of Public Nuisance, then some underemployed attorney could easily make a try at it.

Now you do raise an interesting point that Federal law overrides State. Possibly you have knowledge that I do not that there are no Federal "public nuisance" statutes.

No, there is no Federal public nuisance statute. If there were, I can assure you that some group would have used that tactic long ago to shut down rail service they didn't like.

Think about it. If the NIMBYs of Upton, Mass. were unable to prevent the resuscitation of the completely moribund Grafton & Upton-- a railroad that had been unused for so long that trees were growing in the gauge-- then the NIMBYs of Delray Beach are going to have zero chance of shutting down Brightline, which operates over a railroad that was already hosting multiple freight trains a day.