Viewliner II Delivery/Production

ngotwalt wrote: Could you see any piece of non stainless European equipment still in regular heavy service at seventy years of age, like Amtrak's single level dining cars?

No, because passengers over there expect more than old junk when they buy a train ticket. When you have a lot of good airport connections and discount carriers flying everywhere, you compete or you die.

I've actually been shocked that the SNCB in Belgium runs ancient EMUs (they were ancient when I lived there over 25 years ago, and they're even more ancient today) and that some commuter trains in southeast England are ancient. Metro-North, the LIRR and NJ Transit are much nicer than some of the rolling scrap that I've seen in Europe.

Nasadowsk wrote:

ngotwalt wrote: Could you see any piece of non stainless European equipment still in regular heavy service at seventy years of age, like Amtrak's single level dining cars?

No, because passengers over there expect more than old junk when they buy a train ticket. When you have a lot of good airport connections and discount carriers flying everywhere, you compete or you die.

Some of the commuter equipment is quite old. England has only just phased out the 1950's slam door stock. The famous bubble car dmu's have just retired. viewtopic.php?f=149&t=165136" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; .
Loco wise, the Italian and Swiss Electric motors near the alps were 70 -80 years old , some still in service.
I have started another thread where this may be more on topic in the Worldwide forum . viewtopic.php?f=149&t=165773" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To answer some questions about the Door Interlocks, and the Siemens Brightline trainsets:

The new LDSL cars have door propulsion interlocks. If any door in the train is opened to the outside world, it opens up a circuit to drop the propulsion power and the engineer gets a console light "DOORS OPEN". When all doors are shut, except baggage doors, you will get a "DOORS CLOSED AND LOCKED" indication on the console. The amfleets were wired for such a system, but it is not reliable on that equipment. Amtrak regularly runs with it cut out and not operating. Last year there was an experiment to see if it would work again or not, and it wasnt very successful. They tried to set it up on every train leaving sunnyside. To do this you loop a blue COMM cable between the COMM jumper port and the dummy port. This grounds out the relay in the last car and closes it. Once a door is opened, that relay opens, and sets the light in the cab. My suggestion would be that they wire that relay in to the marker lights to make it easier to set up, the same way the NJT equipment operates.

So until the amfleet IIs are replaced or have their door interlocks better maintained they wont be able to use this feature with the new cars. Next time you see a photo or anything of the LDSL bag dorm or sleeper, youll notice they have the red door open lights at the end of the car.

As far as the Brightline trainset goes I read the paperwork on that order of cars. Siemens didnt just say "your getting this" The cars were specifically built off of PRIAA standards with some modifications suggested by Siemens and accepted by Brightline. The cars are pretty much 100% backwards amtrak compatible if needed and puts Siemens on a leg up in the game for the next Amfleet order should it happen in our lifetimes.

ApproachMedium wrote:To answer some questions about the Door Interlocks, and the Siemens Brightline trainsets:

The new LDSL cars have door propulsion interlocks. If any door in the train is opened to the outside world, it opens up a circuit to drop the propulsion power and the engineer gets a console light "DOORS OPEN". When all doors are shut, except baggage doors, you will get a "DOORS CLOSED AND LOCKED" indication on the console..

See please help me understand this. If the new Viewliners have this feature, why does Amtrak need a waiver? What is the difference between what you are describing and the new rules?

the reason they need the waiver is they will be operating with older cars where the system is wonky and does not work well. You need the entire train to comply for the system to work. So if one car does not work properly, the whole train wont therefore they need the waiver.

Here's an interesting question: how many injuries have they had from open outside doors? And how would dropping propulsion prevent the injury when the train is moving at 79mph? I've seen many conductors open a door and lower the trap while moving in order to make a station stop short, as well as highball before raising the trap and securing the door. I've also see a SL lounge door pop open at track speed because it wasn't properly dogged shut despite being closed. In which of the three scenarios here would this door protection circuit help matters? Answer: NONE.

Some days you get the feeling some of these rule makers have never left their cube in 20 years, and are perhaps little old ladies.

All you're going to do here is add 30 second to every low platform stop in America as well as create once/week delays where the circuit won't work right and a train will sit in a station for 10-15 minutes while we putz around trying to figure out which door is or is not shut, what sensor is bad, can we get permission to cut it out... I can't wait til a cold morning at 6am in Grand Rapids or Port Huron in January when one of those sensors freezes open and the train can't leave the terminal until they cut the car out or get a mechanic.

https://youtu.be/NMekpVLtV_8?t=1m15s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Finally, for my coup-de-gras-de-stupidity, compare the amount of injuries from open doors (once a very common fixture on commuter trains) to those from grade crossing incidents. We have 'em every day, a few deaths per week, WE DONT DO S*** ABOUT IT other than painting cute "operation lifesaver" logos on a few boxcars.

I give up. You cannot be this stupid and make it across the road in the morning. You just can't

This is all nice... but...

When's the next batch of cars.
That's the real question for this particular topic!

At the moment, Mr. Moore, with three of the four "A's" back at Elmira indefinitely, who knows how many of the remaining three ostensibly "on the property" are seeing revenue service? I think at present we are in "all bets off" mode.

Wait, Annapolis and Augusta are back in Elmira? I thought they were OOS at Hialeah, be worked on by Amtrak.
Nick

For all who do not like the rule send a comment to the FRA supporting Amtrak's request. Comment form located in the FRA notice.

What with the trouble with the "A" cars two "B" cars have been shipped...

AMTK 68004 Baton Rouge
AMTK 68005 Boston

Greg Moore wrote:This is all nice... but...

When's the next batch of cars?
That's the real question for this particular topic!

Actually, the moderators could delete all this other nice stuff, and arrange for an automatic daily posting of the vital question, Are we there yet?

OK; so reviewing the postings from the last two pages, here is the "body count" by my count:

Albany - Not accepted; returned to Elmira
Annapolis - Withdrawn @ Hialeah
Atlanta - Withdrawn @ Hialeah
Augusta - Revenue Service
Baton Rouge - Revenue Service
Boston - Revenue Service
Indianapolis - Revenue Service

This means if correct, there are enough for 97-98 until they must yank one for whatever. Anyone know if that is how they are assigned, or is there a pool of eight cars, 4-V and 4-H that handle both Meteor and Crescent allowing the Crescent cars to touch base with Hialeah?

But it appears there will be none delivered during this month.

Amtrak can't do acceptance testing any place closer than the furthest facility in the Southeast?