• Pan Am GE DASH 8 Locomotives

  • Guilford Rail System changed its name to Pan Am Railways in 2006. Discussion relating to the current operations of the Boston & Maine, the Maine Central, and the Springfield Terminal railroads (as well as the Delaware & Hudson while it was under Guilford control until 1988). Official site can be found here: PANAMRAILWAYS.COM.
Guilford Rail System changed its name to Pan Am Railways in 2006. Discussion relating to the current operations of the Boston & Maine, the Maine Central, and the Springfield Terminal railroads (as well as the Delaware & Hudson while it was under Guilford control until 1988). Official site can be found here: PANAMRAILWAYS.COM.

Moderator: MEC407

  by MEC407
 
If I'm not mistaken, LTE bought lots of UP Dash 8-40Bs at UP's various loco auctions.

I'm not entirely clear on where the NS Dash 8-32Bs ended up. I thought I heard that some were scrapped, and I know that one was recently donated to a museum. Did any of them end up with LTE? And were some of them traded to CSX, or am I thinking of a different group of Dash 8s?
  by Trinnau
 
MEC407 wrote:3900-4000 horsepower would be wasted on 10-25 MPH track in Maine, which is where I assume the four-axle GEs would spend most of their time...?
You are forgetting the large amount of 4-axle power needed in local service in passenger territory. Long wheel-base 6-axle units get tricky in old industry settings. Conn River, Connecticut, Fitchburg, Ayer, Nashua, Lawrence, Lowell, Boston, Dover, Portsmouth, Portland. That's probably good for about 15-20 4-axle units right there.
  by 690
 
MEC407 wrote:If I'm not mistaken, LTE bought lots of UP Dash 8-40Bs at UP's various loco auctions.

I'm not entirely clear on where the NS Dash 8-32Bs ended up. I thought I heard that some were scrapped, and I know that one was recently donated to a museum. Did any of them end up with LTE? And were some of them traded to CSX, or am I thinking of a different group of Dash 8s?
I believe it was the ex-CR B40s that were traded to CSX. NS still has 25 B32s on the roster, and they've scrapped a few besides those, but I think the remainder have been auctioned off. I'm not sure of LTE bought them, or GE bought them, and is using LTE to store them, but GE has been pretty active behind the scenes, quietly buying Dash 8s back. The whole deal with these incoming GEs is supposed to be through GE, and as a similar deal with the already purchased Dash 8s, which includes warranty work, and parts.
  by thebigham
 
Mikejf wrote:But Newpy backed up said rumor with his post. So expect at least the 20 Newpy confirmed. Over the next few years of course.
I was mostly referring to an "all GE" roster.
  by MEC407
 
If the all-GE thing is to happen, it's difficult for me to imagine it happening by 2019 (the date given by Mr. Burkholder). This is a company that historically hasn't had the will or the capability to do things of that magnitude that quickly (or at all). To do so would be very aggressive and very ambitious, especially by PAR standards. Where there's a will, there's a way... but do they have the will?

Consider the magnitude of what's being suggested. Out of 107 locomotives currently on the roster (I'm excluding 1, 2, and 007), they'd be dumping and replacing all but 20 of them. Can that be done by 2019? Yes, of course. Can PAR do that by 2019? Well...
  by Triple6 dot5
 
I think it's safe to say the 4 axles will be of NS/CSX heritage as they are more then likely in better shape then the former UP units as they've been oos for years. And on a side note I wouldn't be surprised if some if not all of the next batch of 6 axles are the NS 83/8700's
  by 690
 
Most of the UP Dash 8s were LUGO in the desert, they should be in decent shape as well.
  by F-line to Dudley via Park
 
MEC407 wrote:If the all-GE thing is to happen, it's difficult for me to imagine it happening by 2019 (the date given by Mr. Burkholder). This is a company that historically hasn't had the will or the capability to do things of that magnitude that quickly (or at all). To do so would be very aggressive and very ambitious, especially by PAR standards. Where there's a will, there's a way... but do they have the will?

Consider the magnitude of what's being suggested. Out of 107 locomotives currently on the roster (I'm excluding 1, 2, and 007), they'd be dumping and replacing all but 20 of them. Can that be done by 2019? Yes, of course. Can PAR do that by 2019? Well...
Not sure why they'd bother going that whole-hog with roster turnover anyway if a company sale or partition by '19 is still decent odds. NS is not going to take one single steel-wheeled object of theirs when it takes over PAS, so Waterville is going to be stuffed to the gills with excess power AND railcars that no longer have a role on the shrunken system. IIRC some pages back in one of the rolling stock threads (long before the GE imports) one of our ex-employee regulars broke down what the PAS-less roster needs would be to run all D1+2 jobs in-house w/ generous padding for managing old bones...and it was about 60 locos.

Figure that's a little bit less now that they've got a higher total share of six-axles and something fresher to build around with the 8-40C's. Those would be immediately reassigned post-partition to Worcester-Ayer-Portland and Portland-Waterville mainline duty on the heftiest runs, allowing for somewhat smaller lashups and more cutbacks to the four-axle roster now relegated more to local duty. Then figure less still if the next buyer overturned the rest of the roster's most tired and rusted masses with fresher bodies and took half as good a care of them as, say, the four New England G&W roads do with their collective power. And that the forceful purging of Guilfordian slop-ops by a competent operator slashes back the power wasted all over the road each and every day by blown schedules, excessive canning, haphazard dispatching in & out of the yards, and deplorable mainline physical plant. Now you're talking far less of a padding glut for Waterville's rolling ruins behaving like rolling ruins on ruined rails...and probably can comfortably operate the partitioned system on sub-50 units of well-distributed six- and four-axles.


I could see the logic in piling up another dozen-plus decent condition Dash 8's on-the-cheap if that gives a prospective next buyer of the system 50-60% of a bedrock Class II roster that's not so deferred on maint they can't apply their own shop standards to that inherited power. The EMD's are far too worn out to keep, and rebuilds of fresher power are too cheap these days to try to roll back the attrition with any full-on rebuilds of them; every last Geep's going to get auctioned off for the sake of starting over. So there can be a *little* positive benefit to the company's valuation if they've sporting a baseline of 2-3 dozen GE's serviceable for the long haul with a reasonable distribution of six- vs. four-axle units. But I can't see more than that quantity being anything but a negative-value waste in the long-term, because the PAS-less system post-partition will simply never ever need >5 dozen units and the property value of the 4th and 5th dozen units is wholly dependent on who the eventual buyer is going to be (e.g. maint and ops philosophy re: spares, whether the post-Billerica system will be contiguous with somebody else who already brings a small starting roster in-tow, and so on).
  by newpylong
 
The power purchases are not related to any sale. As has been mentioned they are getting these dirt cheap, they have been very reliable and with that combination (especially with the GE mechanical perks) it is a very fast ROI. Don't read into it anymore than that. I would take any wholesale roster replacement rumors with a grain of salt as well.
  by MEC407
 
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  by atsf sp
 
LTE does have some UP B40s still but most have been scrapped. LTEX is filled with CSX C40s and B40s. It would most likely be these units since they were sold in running condition and were still pulling trains less than a year ago.
  by KSmitty
 
Rumor hazit the second round of GE's will number 16, not 35. All inspected, shipping from LTE shortly, within the next month.
4 additional C40's and 12 B40's of CR and NYSW heritage (so all from CSX). 4 B40's will come with or be equipped upon arrival with cab signals for CT River Line work.

Pretty amazing to think it was only 7 years ago that they gave up on the whole "the GP40 is the ONLY locomotive" mentality and bought their first six axles in over 2 decades. Now here we are, watching EMD's drop...
  by johnpbarlow
 
Are there rumors about dispositions of any of the PAR SD40s / GP40s (eg, scrap, trade-in to LTE, return to GATX, etc)?
  by KSmitty
 
johnpbarlow wrote:Are there rumors about dispositions of any of the PAR SD40s / GP40s (eg, scrap, trade-in to LTE, return to GATX, etc)?
All lease power (GMTX and LTEX lettered units) is OOS/off lease, this now includes MEC 347 & 348 which were traded to GMTX in exchange fore 3004 and 3105.

For owned power, (including 345, the 500's, 616 and the 3400's) newer power reports now show's a new category LUGO.


My speculation:
I doubt we'll see any en masse moves. More likely we'll see them run the EMD's into the ground. Run until something breaks, strip and scrap.

They would be smart to keep a few EMD's around for yard service where the GE's won't show any real fuel savings and will be slower to load. SD40's probably in the bigger yards, GP's in places like Lawrence where they can't keep stuff on the rails.
  by newpylong
 
Fink told the rank and file 17 total, didn't know the exact breakdown. B-40-8's for the 4 packs. Cab signals will be installed in Waterville, 1 unit at a time.

As for the 35 number, they want PAS to be entirely GE around that number and will park the EMDs or send them to PAR.
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