LIRR Conductors salary increase

This thread is getting heated and off topic. Before I lock it I ask that members remain on topic and stop attacking each other.

Be careful -- At what point do you price yourselves out of a job?

Where is the money coming from? The MTA is running a deficit with ATC and East Side Access plus other unfunded projects

Fare increases can only go up so much ....

Mark my words: The sleeping giant, better known as the MTA has a much more sinister plan that will affect us all. Some more then others, some sooner rather then later. While the represented folks sleep assured better days are around the next bend, rest assured the MTAs got a special agenda they those who are closed minded to change will see with a rude awakening.
no need to go further, no need to see a craft war between C/E cause the MTA absolutely LOVES the way. hint: it works in favor to the MTA.

The LIRR is graduating from the stone age to modern day technology.

Still think cameras are a bigger game changer.

workextra wrote:Mark my words: The sleeping giant, better known as the MTA has a much more sinister plan that will affect us all. Some more then others, some sooner rather then later. While the represented folks sleep assured better days are around the next bend, rest assured the MTAs got a special agenda they those who are closed minded to change will see with a rude awakening.
no need to go further, no need to see a craft war between C/E cause the MTA absolutely LOVES the way. hint: it works in favor to the MTA.

Ooooooooooo. .....very ominous vague and scary!
Remarkably short on real info though so kind of a waste of a post.

Good news for conductors.Being the fact that every engineer is also a qualified conductor.Why is inversely every conductor not a qualified engineer?Can engineers attain membership in the smart union? Do engineers have rights to conductor jobs if the lirr says all engineers are also conductors?In the track dept you can bid any job you are qualified for.The track dept is also in the smart union.I think the BLE should exercise its rights and have the engineers roster dovetailed into the conductors roster.Its been done before,just look at the railway labor act archives .

Your post is ridiculous northpit. What you're qualified to do has nothing to do with unions. Every train dispatcher is also a qualified conductor. Should their roster be dovetailed with the conductors roster? Both Smart and BLE have scope rules in their respective contracts that require "members" of that union to be used to perform certain duties, such as fair collection or train handling. Fare collection, flagging for contractors, certain yard and road jobs have to be filled by "members" of the Smart local 645/1831. Copying paperwork, arranging to enter the main, etc., are not exclusively conductors work as per the Smart or BLE contracts. If the railroad ever signed an agreement like that in the future, it would be the stupidest thing the LIRR would ever do and also restrict an engineers qualifications. Unless the BLE agreed and they wouldn't, it won't happen.

Train handling is the scope of an engineers work and by contract, you have to be a "member" of the BLE div. 269. If there wasn't a scope rule like that in the BLE contract, then yes, the railroad could qualify any craft to operate trains and use them. An engineer certified as a conductor was agreed to by the LIRR and BLE to continue to allow the engineer the ability to operate trains without conductors.

The new raise is a change in fair collection, which is exclusive work of Smart local 645 members. All members of the union are entitled, not just a conductor. You don't have to be a conductor to collect fares. If for example, the raise was for writing a train order, then the engineers are entitled to that raise as well, because they too are qualified to perform that work. But its not for train orders, its for fares.

my post is not ridiculous, your post is confusing,train dispatchers do not posess a conductor license. Engineers do, Also engineers are not the only craft that operates trains on the lirr.Shop employees routinely move trains.The track dept has many "track cars"that sure look like trains to me

My post is confusing to you northpit? you implied that because engineers are certified conductors, that they are entitled to conductors jobs. And I am saying to you that qualifications have nothing to do with who does what job. Train Dispatchers for example. If the railroad desired can certify every train dispatcher as a conductor. They meet all the training and qualifications. If they were certified as conductors at some point, they would have to join local 645 or 1831 of the Smart union to bid or be assigned conductor jobs. Same as an engineer. These are scope of work rules in each unions' contracts.

Engineers are the only craft on the railroad that operates "trains". I have the vibe that you are in a shop craft and unfamiliar with operating rules and the engineer certification law. On the railroad, a "train" has headlights on one end and markers on the other. your shop crafts do not require this. Your non engineer certified shop crafts cannot operate outside of designated MofE territory. They cannot move those engines more than 5mph. they are specifically exempted from certification because of this very limited movement. Track cars cannot proceed in excess of 40mph. If they did, they need an engineer, i.e. TC82. A track car pilot does not qualify for conductor certification. he does not meet the conductor qualifications on the LIRR. And if he did and wanted to be assigned to conductor jobs, he would need to join local 645 or 1831 of Smart. If an MofE employee wanted to operate engines only, no cars, from one shop facility to another outside of MofE territory he would need a locomotive servicing certification. He would need to qualify on rules and pc of that route. if he did he still couldn't perform the work. Why? Scope rules in the BLE contract forbid this. if the MofE employee wanted to perform this work, he would need to join the BLE.

Your post seems to imply that because and engineer is a certified conductor, he should be assigned to conductor jobs. The LIRR would violate the scope of work provisions of the Smart contract. Before the LIRR can assign a conductor job to an engineer, the railroad would have to exhaust any means available to have a member of 645 or 1831 to perform the work. This has been done but within the parameters I described. does this help?

Why on earth would a train dispatcher possibly want to work as a conductor?

Lock it!!! LOCK IT!!!!!! LOCK IT NOW!!!!!!!

*Datenail and northpit, your posts are more appropriate to a thread on SCOPE rules, not salaries and ticket servicing equipment.

Is the employee responsible for the replacement cost of the ticket servicing equipment in the event it is lost or damaged?

Probably not the full replacement cost but some partial amount. For example if a trainmen loses his service punch he must pay $25 for a replacement punch.

This thread has now officially entered the territory of overly arcane discussion about something only a tiny fraction of people understand or care about. Not that I'm a fan of this forum's often too-fast / too-reactionary locking of threads but perhaps time to move on with this discussion.

While some readers may not understand this discussion, some who don't would like to learn from it. The dynamics of union "scope" agreements vs. rules qualifications is a complex but intriguing topic. It can be applied to any heavy industry. The discussion of technological changes vs. union rules also dives deeply into future operating efficiency.

Certainly some readers may only like equipment, history or planning discussions. But some of us enjoy reading of these sociological dynamics.

For that reason, the moderator should leave this thread open, and those who feel a need to pound their chests in celebration of some superiority of their crafts should really lid their pontificating.

...

As an aside, since virtually all Track Foremen are also qualified as conductors, when will the LIRR give them Rail Safety Improvement Act cards? The transportation supervisors all have them, along with several Engineering supervisors.