Generator cars in NYP

if working diesel engines are not allowed in the North River tunnels and NYP,
how did they have generator cars to supply HEP to Amfleet cars and the Budd Keystone experimental car set set pulled by GG1's?

I worked as a travelling electrician for Amtrak during that period while I was in college. The diesel power cars WERE operated within the tunnels and Penn Station. They were relatively small engines and did not generate anywhere near as much exhaust fumes as a prime mover would. Later on, the GG1 was modified for HEP, and some of the E-60's were equipped with HEP (although on the E-60 the HEP would need to be reset quite often.

Mr. Cbo, no G was modified for HEP, most E-60's 20 of 'em as I recall, we're delivered with HEP.

Back in those days, you know better than I, that HEP whether from a 13XX Power Car or an E, left much to be desired regarding reliability.

n2cbo wrote:I worked as a travelling electrician for Amtrak during that period while I was in college. The diesel power cars WERE operated within the tunnels and Penn Station. They were relatively small engines and did not generate anywhere near as much exhaust fumes as a prime mover would. Later on, the GG1 was modified for HEP, and some of the E-60's were equipped with HEP (although on the E-60 the HEP would need to be reset quite often.

N2CBO and Everyone:

Amtrak used 690 series power cars to provide HEP for Amfleet cars in NEC service back when they were new and
they were to be hauled by a non-HEP equipped locomotive - GG1s or one of the few E60s that did not have HEP
capability. These cars - which were former short baggage cars at around 50 feet long (690-699?) were used until
the AEM7s were established in the early 1980s and until non compatible locomotives were retired. These power
cars were cleared for operations in all of the NEC tunnels in NY-NJ, Baltimore and Washington.

GG1s - as GBN mentions - never had HEP installed requiring these modified power cars. Amtrak retired their
remaining GG1s in 1981 when there were enough AEM7s to provide NEC Amfleet service.

MACTRAXX

So from what I'm reading from other books is that the Budd Keystone "tubular" car set - with the two level coaches
air conditioning etc, that required the HEP/Kitchen car never made it past 1956/57.
Another source mentioned that they were rough riding.

Thoughts?

The power cars were former U.S. Army kitchen cars built for hospital trains but never used (for the Korean war). Amtrak got title to them along with a bunch of hospital cars for less than $3000 a piece in a GAO move in 1973, just in time to convert them to short baggage cars and HEP power cars. The hospital cars themselves were converted to baggage-dorms and some very nice lounges.

What about the Pennsy AeroTrain? Did it run East of Newark, N.J., and how?

The Power Cars,685-696 had a MAS of 105 mph on the NEC and were all cleared for tunnel use,
with Gen-sets that were avaible at that time period.
Amtrak's GG-1's had a 27 point plug with some wires used to trigger a signal to the EP valves
on Amfleet I's and possibly a buzzer in the cab since the air signal line was not used.
This was on each end and the plug was put on the pilot step or a hook when not in use.
The wires were run under the PRR style MU control cableing

While other than the intended subject, in the background there is a Power Car converted from a former UP Coach:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 448&nseq=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here is a photo of a former USAX Kitchen that became an Amtrak Power Car:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 42&nseq=63" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Gilbert B Norman wrote:Mr. Cbo, no G was modified for HEP, most E-60's 20 of 'em as I recall, we're delivered with HEP.

Back in those days, you know better than I, that HEP whether from a 13XX Power Car or an E, left much to be desired regarding reliability.

I stand corrected (that was a LONG time ago), and you are also correct as to the reliability of the HEP (That is why we were TRAVELLING electricians..)

The Keystone equipment remained in service until at least 1963; I was based in Baltimore that year and rode it (I don't recall any problems with riding quality). There's a thread about this under General Discussion - Passenger Rail above, in which I mention that the timetables of 1960 required the heat setting to be lowered between the east portals of the East River and west portals of the Hudson River tunnels, and also between ZOO and ARSENAL to include 30th St. Station. There were other requirements for the B&P and Union Tunnels in Baltimore, all to reduce diesel emissions without shutting down the diesel altogether.

JimBoylan wrote:What about the Pennsy AeroTrain? Did it run East of Newark, N.J., and how?

I hope somebody knows this; I've wondered about it myself.

did not the GG-1 have a steam boiler that used fuel oil.

faxman wrote:did not the GG-1 have a steam boiler that used fuel oil.

Yes, and the Dining Cars had wood burning stoves (that produced quite a bit of smoke...). I remember the smell of a fireplace burning when the LDs with dining cars came into Penn (I actually kind of miss that...). I think the rule was a NYC ordinance that was passed after two steam powered trains collided in the Park Ave Tunnel (WELL before my time...).

Dziobko got pics of the westward Aerotrain at Newark, removing its GG1. Don't recall which Morning Sun they're in. The Aerotrain became a Phila-to-Pittsburgh train in June? 1956.