"Only the First Four Cars Will Platform..."

As a Long Islander who moved to Forest Hills a few years ago, I'd always wondered..

Why ARE the platforms at Forest Hills and Kew Gardens only built to handle four cars in both directions? It doesn't seem like space on the track sides was ever a concern, either station could easily be extended outward. It sure isn't for lack of ridership at either one, as I'd always noticed as a LI commuter. Now as someone getting on/off at FH instead, I've seen from this new perspective how crowded said cars get in each train, as well as having to make sure that you're in one of those cars as you board in your origin station. Real fun during rush hours, when everyone already boards up front as it is, out of sheer laziness. (I used to take advantage of that every time by going all the way to the back, relaxing in a seat, and hear the agitated conductors repeatedly say there's more seating in the back)

Just wondering if anyone had any insights.

One of the main reasons is the fact the subway - although not as direct - is just down the block. Remember, they both want to make money for their respective agency of the MTA and the more you tap into one market the more you are taking from another.

Another reason is, it is much easier to collect four cars worth of fares instead of 12 cars.

And logistically, it would be more costly to build longer platforms then you think. For Kew Gardens, it might be easier simply because there are no major roadblocks in either direction (signal bridges, curves, etc) which is exactly the case at Forest Hills. The railroad, while probably monitoring the ridership numbers for these two stops, are more likely to invest crutial resources to other areas where there is a much more vital need to address.

The individual counties reimburse the LIRR for station improvements and maintenance, with the exception of federally-funded UMTA projects. New York City does not wish to pay for extensions to the platforms at Forest Hills and Kew Gardens. Proposals were offered many times to the City Council.

As was also mentioned here, the MTA sees the LIRR as serving Nassau and Suffolk and leans toward discouraging local NYC ridership. The feeling is that during the rush hours, there is little available capacity for additional customers at NYC line stations.

See, what I find funny about the "Subway Up The Block" theory, is that a monthly LIRR pass from FH to Penn is currently over $180 as of this writing, while an unlimited MetroCard is $112. (I myself, not being made of money, opt for the latter for my Manhattan commute...) Yet, when I pass the station on my way to the 71st Ave E/F stop, I am amazed at the amount of people crammed onto the westbound platform in the morning, or the horde of commuters coming down from an eastbound train in the evening. Not that I guess I complain since it's slightly less crowding on my subway ride....

I kind of assumed it had something to do with the MTA and NYC, since they've been compartmentalizing the LIRR and subways since the 60's/70's closures of so many stations within the boroughs (Hillside, Springfield Gardens, Woodhaven, etc). Quite clearly, LIRR serves LI proper, subways serve the city. I guess the fact that both FH and KG actually *DO* seem to have good patronage kind of threw me off.

I76 and Everyone:

I will add that the regular commuters from both Forest Hills and Kew Gardens are affluent and would more then
likely use extra fare express buses to commute to Manhattan over the busy Queens Boulevard E/F trains if LIRR
service was not available...In the cases of both stations commuters are willing to pay extra money for a faster
and short - and more comfortable (then standing on crowded E and F trains) daily LIRR commute...

MACTRAXX

On this topic once again, I had taken a peek at the FH station the other day, and had tried to imagine that *IF* they were finally approved, how would it go... It seems like you could use the existing station as a "center". Hard to estimate but going westbound from the platforms, you have maybe 100-150-ish feet from the the station to that signal gantry. Going east, it's hard to gauge where that curve starts. Oh well, one can dream...

For what it's worth. I'm a easterly direction Murrary Hill on the Port Washington branch is actually Rear open car loading. Unlike the cluster * created at Kew and Forest. Most LIRR trains are very heavy if not backed to the walls on the east end.
If you remove all the Kew and Forest passengers from front and make the stations "Rear 4" eastbound the loading issue would resolve it self. Exception being the trains that are just beyond full. In those cases there's really nothing you can do but try the next one.

The platforms at Kew and Forest also predate the subway. And their length had nore to do with ridership at the time they were first built. Woodside, And the former stations: Grand street, Rego Park, and West bridge were no more then either 4 or 6 cars. Why did the MTA feel Woodside should be 12 cars and not 6/8 or10?
I'll tell you right now. It would seriously streamline operations and fare collection efforts of all eastbound trains only opened The east 10 cars at Woodside on a 12 car open peak train

So today the cop out is you got the subway. It's just the lazy mans excuse to make it go away. Nothing more

Unlike the cluster * created at Kew and Forest. Most LIRR trains are very heavy if not backed to the walls on the east end.
If you remove all the Kew and Forest passengers from front and make the stations "Rear 4" eastbound the loading issue would resolve it self.

Yes, those lazy commuters who cram into the first car because it's closest to the stairs from the main concourse....

How bad is it the night they have the concerts? I was astounded the first couple of times it delayed the eastbounds, but they seem to have a good grip on it now...