Color light signals Jamaica station complex

On Saturday I took the train back to Syosset from Jamaica. While there I noticed that some color light signals were installed do they have plans to install color light signals all throughout the complex or just on specific tracks?

Thanks

Whenever new signals are installed, they will be of the inferior color light variety, contrary to the FRA's recommendations.

The color light sigs are there now to call attention to signals prone to being missed, not for any other reason. Jay and Hall are huge, and some of the signals can be traps for crewmen who haven't seen it a long time and are all of sudden pressed into service to provide for a back-up move, or one's that may be missed for whatever reason. Look at the west end of 1, 2 and 3 tracks at the low homes gathered at the throat of the tracks leading west, and tell me that can't be confusing. If it helps keep things safer, then why not?

I beg to differ with them "keeping things safer".

krispy wrote:The color light sigs are there now to call attention to signals prone to being missed, not for any other reason. Jay and Hall are huge, and some of the signals can be traps for crewmen who haven't seen it a long time and are all of sudden pressed into service to provide for a back-up move, or one's that may be missed for whatever reason. Look at the west end of 1, 2 and 3 tracks at the low homes gathered at the throat of the tracks leading west, and tell me that can't be confusing. If it helps keep things safer, then why not?

Isn't it harder to ignore a position-light signal than a color light signal? Under certain conditions, a bright red light can be hard to distinguish from an dark amber light, depending on ambient lighting conditions.

The visibility of those signals is a 1000 times better than the old low homes they replaced. If your going west and coming into track one or zero track you see the color light signal right away as soon as you come around the platform curve and from far away. The low homes used to just blend into the background (esp in sunny conditions) and could be easily lost or missed if not paying attention. Also they are LED and super bright. Unless you are totally color blind there is no way to mix up the yellow and red. It's a great improvement over what was there. A super bright red LED spotlight stands out and gets your attention a lot more than two small white bulbs on the ground.

On the mainline I do prefer position light signals, but in yards like Jamaica and the lead tracks to WSY those new color light signals are far superior to the PL low homes they replaced.

The visibity is great, especially at night destroying your night vision after keeping your eye on them until out of view. They are extremely distracting. They also have an issue with blending in with light pollution in congested areas such as Jamaica, Harold, etc.
The Position Light aspects trigger an automatic mental recognition upon observing them, even the Stop Signal aspect. Whereas color lights, even though you know the aspects, you subconsciously think for a split second, "ok, green over red, clear".
What the RR could have done is used the new low homes Amtrak installed on the Subs at F. But no, that's not what the foreigners in the Signal Dept. wanted. And of course no consideration is taken into the thought and opinion of T+E. If it works in India, it can work here.
BTW, the RR could have even gone with the non-LED G-Head color lights Amtrak put up in F going east out of the lines. That would have been an phenomenally better option than what they have gone with out east, at Jamaica, Wood, and Harold.

Just remember the biggest reason they put the color light there was because of a sideswipe. I wouldn't be surprised if they put more in just because.

And I think a big factor in picking this style color light was it is (AFAIK) the same ones that Metro North uses.

Color lights don't prevent side swipes anymore than position lights do.
They aren't the same type, and Metro North uses an entirely foreign signaling system anyway.

While we're on the subject of "low-homes" and such, I have a related question. At night, how does an engineer distinguish between a slow-clear in a "low-home" vs. a clear in a pedestal signal, which is only a few feet higher? They both have 2 vertical white lights, and as you approach one at night how can you be sure whether it's a "low-home" or a pedestal? In daylight you can see which type of signal it is, but at night it must be difficult. You wonder how they could have used the same aspect to mean different things, based only on the difference of a few feet in the height of the signal.

And the same question would apply to an approach vs. a slow-approach again with the same aspect meaning different things depending only on the slight difference in the height of the signal head.

Keyword #"Qualified" (Allegedly)

I've sometimes thought that the situation Head-end View mentions could be dealt with, if it's a real problem, by modifying the pedestals to display two horizontal lights on the bottom so that 2 verticals over dark mean it's a dwarf, therefore Slow Clear, while 2 verticals over 2 horizontals = Clear, and a 45-degree over dark means it's a dwarf displaying Slow Approach, and 45-degree over 2 horizontals = Approach. And it's fail-safe, at that--if the bottom horizontal fails, it gives a more restrictive indication. (Of course there would be no need to change the pedestal aspect for Slow Approach, and there never has been a Slow Clear on a pedestal.) Nevertheless, as 452 Card points out, the engineer is supposed to know where he is and therefore what kind of signal it is. There's a parallel situation leaving Suburban Station in Philadelphia, coming out of the tunnel at 20th St. At night, on the the dwarf signal at the portal you see 2 vertical, Slow Clear, while on the next signal you see 2 vertical, Clear, because it's a pedestal.

Okay, so the answer is that the engineer, being qualified and experienced in the territory knows where and what type every signal is, so is not likely to make a mistake. And I would guess too that the preceding signal in some cases also gives a clue as to what to expect at the next signal. And presumably the cab-signal also gives a confirmation of the wayside signal.

But when I asked the original question I was thinking about the days before cab-signals.

Yes--as to what to expect at the next signal, every signal indication (except Stop) conveys two pieces of information: what to do now, and what to be ready for at the next signal (or, in the case of Restricting or Stop-and-Proceed, what to be ready for at any moment). So even without cab signals, a train should never be hit with an indication, such as stop or a speed reduction, that it wasn't informed about at the previous signal. And if a train stops between signals, the rules require the engineer to proceed expecting the next signal to be more restrictive than the previous signal indicated it would be. Thus, in the example involving two vertical lights on a dwarf (Slow Clear), the previous signal would have to be Approach Slow (proceed approaching signal at Slow Speed, i. e., 15 mph), or if the signal isn't equipped to display that, Approach (proceed approaching next signal prepared to stop). There aren't supposed to be any surprises, but on the other hand there aren't supposed to be any rule violations either.

Why 're the LIRR replacing wayside signals with colour lights signals if the trains running on cab signal? I have seen them on my way to Penn station.