Northeast Regional 188 - Accident In Philadelphia

This article http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... -by-object implies that the talk about projectile striking the train also applies to 188.

She said she overhead a radio transmission minutes before where the engineer of a separate commuter train reported “that he had either been hit by a rock or shot at” when he passed through the same area earlier, said National Transportation Safety Board Member Robert Sumwalt.

“She also believed that she heard her engineer say something about his train being struck by something,” Sumwalt said at a news briefing on Friday.

BR&P wrote: I'm still skeptical about the projectile thing. I would think that if that had happened we would be getting SOME preliminary, tentative indication from the various agencies investigating, either directly or as a "unnamed source" leak. But I've been wrong before.

The NYT is reporting that the FBI has been asked to investigate the damage to the windshield.

At a news conference on Friday, Robert L. Sumwalt, the safety board official who is leading the investigation, said that investigators had found damage to the left side of a portion of the windshield and that they had called on the Federal Bureau of Investigation to look at it.

The F.B.I. was called in because it has experience with the forensics expertise needed for the investigation, officials said, but it has not yet begun its analysis.

Guess I called that one.

Re: Northeast Regional 188 - Fatalities by location on train

Postby CarterB » Fri May 15, 2015 2:38 pm
Anyone know
1. Location/s (cars) on the train where fatalities were sitting?
2. Any survivors at all from Business Class (first car)

http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 0#p1331406" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RR Authority edited his post shortly after posting to clarify what he had written. The well-intendioned sarcasm didn't translate well into text. As has been reiterated for the last few pages, the baseless attention sucking media bashing regarding his sexual orientation is totally irrelevant to the derailment. Nothing more needs to be said about it.

Anyways, the constructive speculation in this thread is amazing and has preceded many unfolding events in this story. Not to sound insensitive as any loss of life is an unacceptable tragedy, but this is easily one of the most interesting rail disasters in recent years, on par with the MM&A runaway. In the past few years I can't think of anything where the cause of the derailment has been so muddied. The radio communications, forensics results, and other black box data will ultimately determine whether or not this foreign object theory is legitimate, but for his sake I hope it is.

I would like to apologize in an earlier post for seemingly jumping to the conclusion that operator inexperience or inattentiveness was likely the main, immediate factor contributing to the accident. Of course I'm not now ruling it out, but that's far different than believing it to be the only truth. I was perhaps too cynical about his early refusal to make a statement or inability to remember anything. I should have remembered a bicyling accident I had as a kid where I got a concussion and forget the minutes surrounding it, too. Though it seems unlikely a strike could have incapacitated him and caused unintended acceleration, we clearly cannot rule that out now. Unlikely things do happen once in a while in this universe, as was so brilliantly illustrated by the first few minutes of the film 'Magnolia'. And furthermore, a case could even be made that since the conductor had already discussed the issue of projectiles with him, he would have been extra vigilant and even more unlikely to just "zone out" and forgot the milepost's speed limit.
Hopefully the truth will come out in an unambiguous way.

Please tell me we aren't bringing a person's sexuality into this? Really? I was hoping we'd have moved on from that immaturity by now.

It sounds like a bunch of kids from a disenfranchised low income area of the city were out making mischief the only way they know how and this terrible crash was the result. Poverty claims more victims, then republicans slash amtrak's budget and call a legitimate question about funding stupid while attacking the train operator who is very likely innocent.

Who do you hold accountable when the whole system is broken? I blame myself as a voter & tax payer for not doing more. We should all be ashamed of this, as voters, tax payers, and citizens.

TrainPhotos wrote: It sounds like a bunch of kids from a disenfranchised low income area of the city were out making mischief the only way they know how and this terrible crash was the result. Poverty claims more victims, then republicans slash amtrak's budget and call a legitimate question about funding stupid while attacking the train operator who is very likely innocent.

Who do you hold accountable when the whole system is broken? I blame myself as a voter & tax payer for not doing more. We should all be ashamed of this, as voters, tax payers, and citizens.

While Amtrak could use more money, that wouldn't have prevented this crash. There was nothing wrong with the infrastructure in the area that could have caused the crash. The train was going twice the MAS.

Being a Boston native, I am no stranger to the fact that a disaster brings out the best in our first responders. At the infamous Marathon Bombing, which dominated the news here today, everyone who was alive when the first responders reached them is still alive today! It sounds like the results in Philadelphia were similar. I join the chorus of support for those who risked personal injury to get the passengers out and congratulate them on a job well done.

I have had nothing to say regarding the cause of the wreck, or the personnel involved. BUT ALL who post here need to remember that this is a public forum, so even if we hide behind handles, we might prejudice a future legal action. Think before you post, and keep this discussion reasonable! As I pointed out about 30 pages ago, Amfleet cars are not perfect, but six of those cars got tossed around pretty badly but held up well. I wouldn't be surprised to see them repaired and back in service before Amfleet is retired.

Can we get back to the facts please? I have to ask, what does the conductors personal life have to do with this accident? Unless if he was severely ill, and the NTSB and other authorities prove a connection, let's stick to the facts. Amtrak engineers and conductors do a good job...and I will continue to support the service.

MaggieL wrote:I admit I haven't read all 24 pages of comments here. But is anybody thinking about the possibility that the engineer was incapacitated by a thrown/dropped object? Obviously premature pending the NTSB investigation, but:

There are a number of street overpasses on the run up to the accident scene. A brick/rock/other heavy thing could have been dropped from any one of them.

Two other trains (one SEPTA regional, and one Acela) on that trackage were hit by something heavy enough to break windows that evening.

The engineer says he doesn't remember what happened. He has a head wound that required 14 stitches to close.

Note the condition of the engineer's side windshield of the locomotive:



The other side is undamaged.

"Dead-man" switches are not perfect.

You called it. Good job.

morris&essex4ever wrote: While Amtrak could use more money, that wouldn't have prevented this crash. There was nothing wrong with the infrastructure in the area that could have caused the crash. The train was going twice the MAS.

If the money had been used to roll out PTC, then yes money could have prevented the crash.

carajul wrote:As for the engineer "not remembering" I'd say that is bs.

I once rode with an engineer who had gotten into some kind of a sticky situation earlier in his career due to something he witnessed. He told me that ever since then, the only words he needed to know were "I didn't see anything".

This guy made it a point to never look back for a highball (or for anything for that matter). His eyes were always straight ahead and he never once glanced in his rearview mirror. He had done this for so long that it had become an ingrained part of himself as an engineer.

I would like to point you all to something. Look at that picture, and then google bulletproof glass. The markings of a gunshot into bulletproof glass are eerily similar.