New Hampshire Commuter Rail Discussion

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:It takes a pretty presumptuous leap in judgment to claim that an intentional omission of Massachusetts constituent interests is the "T's" operational plan.

I disagree, and strongly at that. I assume that newpylong is providing us with his assessment of things as he sees them, which may include perspective gained from information that is not generally available.

I appreciate it when people provide their assessments of deliberative process. It's very hard information to find and as part of the deliberative process there are often incomplete, non-sequential or consultative documents drafted that will be missing components that a full, final and complete record of a decision would have.

As I take it newpylong is simply saying that the T has some kind of an informal plan on hand for extension into New Hampshire and that they have certain preferred outcomes in terms of station choices and other matters. Furthermore, the "out of district" comment I read as "beyond the scope of operations". Specifically, that the T does not see any circumstance under which they would extend operations further than Manchester even if NH wanted it. I did not read it as a remark regarding charter ramifications and legal mandates for service.

My $0.02.

Why wait for NH to build new layover facilities?

I say cram them as close to NH as possible, while still allowing for a ladder track at both ends to reduce reverse moves in and out no matter which direction the terminus is in. Build any stations that would exist post-extension, such as Rosemont and North Chelmsford. *If* an extension to Nashua or Plaistow occurs, you're layovers are close enough. Ideal? No. But we're not talking about ideal negotiations or ideal politics, either. Bradford is not the place for a layover -- it is too dense, it just doesn't seem right. And the Lowell Line has no layover at all. I think this should be "corrected".

EDIT: not to mention, the Bradford Layover has "outdated" equipment or some such, doesn't it?

I think the MBTA reached the same conclusion several years ago. There's still discussion (at least in this thread) of what to do about New Hampshire but otherwise then T appears more than ready to do exactly what you described to address the issues that you described.

> Lowell, Anderson RTC, and North Station

Don't even need to stop at Anderson.....there is nothing there for NH commuters.

eustis22 wrote:> Lowell, Anderson RTC, and North Station
Don't even need to stop at Anderson.....there is nothing there for NH commuters.

As long as it seen as the MBTA's train (which is mostly a matter of how much NH is willing to "buy them out") there's going to be a political need to stop at Anderson RTC. Frequent service at Anderson underscores its utility as a park-and-ride solution to rush hour congestion on I-93. The MBTA's Voter-Commuters would object to an express train full of NH folks blowing by, saying to themselves: "I didn't just give up my comfy car and decongest 93, only to see an MBTA train blow by me as I wait on the platform" Heck, even the Downeaster is made to stop there.

Anderson has to outperform I-93 on convenience in order to draw people off the interstates. It does that with frequency. It's an all-stop.

Trains can express south of Anderson because Winchester, Wedgemere, and W.Medford (me), because the locals can be made to wait (and aren't as much tempted to pop onto I-93 for a whole lot of vehicle-miles if they're unhappy.

The more NH is willing to pay to the MBTA, the more express-y its trains can afford to be. Based on everything we know about NH, I don't see them stumping up enough cash that the MBTA can afford to run another Anderson train to take the place of the one that serves NH.

eustis22 wrote:> Lowell, Anderson RTC, and North Station

Don't even need to stop at Anderson.....there is nothing there for NH commuters.

There is, however, a direct and convenient connection to Logan Airport, which one will not get at North Station.

Rockingham Racer wrote:

eustis22 wrote:> Lowell, Anderson RTC, and North Station

Don't even need to stop at Anderson.....there is nothing there for NH commuters.

There is, however, a direct and convenient connection to Logan Airport, which one will not get at North Station.

I would assume some corporate offices may potentially have a shuttle, as well. If not, post-NH extension would be the perfect time to start.

BostonUrbEx wrote:I would assume some corporate offices may potentially have a shuttle, as well. If not, post-NH extension would be the perfect time to start.

At some point, Woburn will get its act together and:
- Get a pedestrian bridge to the light industrial stuff on the west side of Anderson
- Get some TOD that's walkable to Anderson

Raytheon's offices are tantalizingly close, but I guess engineers with security clearance are car people. Humph. And Analog Devices is stupidly far. Although, until frequencies at Anderson get boosted (e.g. with NH trains) its hard to make transit competitive with cars in Woburn. There are a lot of big offices there that just got put stupid "office park" distances apart. It probably won't get fixed until Anderson is the northern terminus of the electrified Amtrak NEC (so we're waiting on the North-South Rail Link), but that's for another thread.

Arlington wrote:

BostonUrbEx wrote:I would assume some corporate offices may potentially have a shuttle, as well. If not, post-NH extension would be the perfect time to start.

At some point, Woburn will get its act together and:
- Get a pedestrian bridge to the light industrial stuff on the west side of Anderson
- Get some TOD that's walkable to Anderson

Raytheon's offices are tantalizingly close, but I guess engineers with security clearance are car people. Humph. And Analog Devices is stupidly far. Although, until frequencies at Anderson get boosted (e.g. with NH trains) its hard to make transit competitive with cars in Woburn. There are a lot of big offices there that just got put stupid "office park" distances apart. It probably won't get fixed until Anderson is the northern terminus of the electrified Amtrak NEC (so we're waiting on the North-South Rail Link), but that's for another thread.

Some people at Raytheon and in the adjacent parks walk - but like you said there really is no safe way for them to get there. They are forced to share the station exit with the cars, and anyone who has used that station knows how fast people rush to their vehicles and scream down the road just to sit in traffic. I think there used to be transportation from Anderson to the parks in Burlington when the station first opened but they fell by the wayside. I know the big companies along Middlesex Turnpike in Billerica and Bedford have organized shuttle service from Alewife for employees and they are very well used.

There's another reason for the MBTA to serve NH that no too many people think about.

People like me, who work in MA and live in NH pay MA income taxes but there is NOBODY at the State House on Beacon Hill who is accountable to us. It's almost a version of 'free money'.

However - given that Nashua wants it, the businesses there want it, the Mall now wants it (shocking to me since I knew the group there), the airport wants it and it even looks like Manchester wants it (with all the mill buildings, jobs, colleges and sports facilities near the proposed station) that this WON'T be "just a MA thing" if the NH legislature comes down to earth.

...but I'm not counting on rationality in Concord.

http://www.necn.com/news/new-england/_N ... 12641.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The MBTA has $9 Billion in debt. Is there any reason why NH shouldn't be skeptical of the T?....or furthermore why we shouldn't expect this to happen to an NHRTA some day.

Surely Big Dig over-runs greatly affected their situation...but then you read stuff like this:
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massac ... story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So you have an issue with people who defer salary into pension funds and then collecting their deferred salary (plus market gains)?

Same here. When I was getting ready to leave the Army, I attended a great class about working for UP led by a retired 1SG-turned-UP recruiter. He expressed the great benefit of being able to retire with full pension after 30 years. If I started today, I'd be that magic number as well come retirement day. So blaming their debt on taking care of their young (albeit well-worked) retirees is just silly.

p42thedowneaster wrote:http://www.necn.com/news/new-england/_N ... 12641.html
The MBTA has $9 Billion in debt. Is there any reason why NH shouldn't be skeptical of the T?....or furthermore why we shouldn't expect this to happen to an NHRTA some day.

Skeptical in what way? The truth-telling kind or the cost-hiding kind (or some other?)

On the truth-telling front I worry more about opponents who hold up pictures of smoky steam engines as if it were true of anything, than I do about the T discussing EPA/FRA-prescribed engineering realities.

On the cost-hiding kind and pensions, that's a worry that owners (Massachussetts) have, but not that renters (Rhode Island or NH) would have.

Riding an Uber might look expensive, but its cheaper than owning your own car and hiring a driver and paying his pension. NH would be riding an Uber. Relax.

NH would negotiate a contract price. I assume this would include MBTA's bloated pension & payroll costs but not their (humungous) debt service costs. NH would have to pay for T-spec'd Tier IV diesel engines & Hyundai-Brokem coaches. They'd be running say 8-car consists with extra conductors needed for the Boston end when they were only picking up say 1 car's worth of passengers in NH. Or NH could run shuttle trains to MA and save some coin on lower salary/benefits/equipment, and MBTA gets a better end-to-end load factor (theoretically) without paying for NH expansions and relieving highway congestion.